View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1681
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So you want to discriminate against some people and use force to take away their rights because of the nature of the power structure. Thanks for explaining. It's all perfectly clear now.
    Due process is not using force.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Due process is not using force.
    Yes, government laws are enFORCED with force. If you can't acknowledge this you are being naive.

    So the nature of the power structure I see is that the government is discriminating against a particular class of property owner, and is using force, um sorry, "due process" to deny them rights that all other property owners have.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, government laws are enFORCED with force. If you can't acknowledge this you are being naive.

    So the nature of the power structure I see is that the government is discriminating against a particular class of property owner, and is using force, um sorry, "due process" to deny them rights that all other property owners have.
    Due process is not force. And, the property owner doesn't haven't limitless rights.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post

    But what is your motive here? Is it to trash Rand Paul? Or me?
    To simply make an observation about the implications of advocating discrimination.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    my property rights trump your exercisable rights.......WHEN YOU ARE ON MY PROPERTY..THEY DO..
    Only is your sacred property is on your own island nation and you have no others with you. Otherwise - your obsession with your own property ends up the same way... YOUR PRETEND RIGHTS simply do not exist.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No mental gymnastics happened here. My position has been the same through out the thread. That there is no right to not be discriminated against because in order for such a right to exist it would violate peoples rights to property, speech, and association. A persons Rights end where another persons Rights begin. That is simple fact.

    However the main person that I have been discussing this with has had to change his wording 3 different times to try and make his arguement stick. Failing each and every time. That is where the mental gymnastics are coming from.
    More from the church of the sacred property rights trumping all other rights.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So you don't think people have a right to control access to the property they own? Great, I'll be right over. Hope you have lots of beer in your fridge.
    It seems that you also totally and completely miss the point. I wonder how that could happen?
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I agree, but the first interest of any business is to stay profitable. Discrimination against anyone, apart from being ignorant, is just bad for business.
    Agreed. It's the natural consequence of wrong action. And I hope that every business that does discriminate goes down in flames or changes their stance due to public pressure, not from the violation of rights by a law.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    my property rights trump your exercisable rights.......WHEN YOU ARE ON MY PROPERTY..THEY DO.

    when you enter my property, your exercisable rights becomes privileges, that i can allow you to exercise or not.........if i chose you hand bear a firearm on my property, and if i chose not.......you cant, without running afoul of the law.
    You're still not getting it and your wording is only hurting the argument. I can execute each and every one of my executable rights on your property, if I am on the property with your permission. You're only recourse at that point where I execute a right that you didn't want me to is to have me leave your property, i.e. revoke my privilege to be on there. However, unless I refuse to leave (thus violating your property rights) if at any point during my egress you attempt to forcibly stop my executing my right (such as my continuing to engage in my free speech rights) then it will be you who are in violation of the law. I cannot execute my executable rights without running the risk of losing my privilege to be on your property, but I can execute them nonetheless. When I do so I am NOT in violation of your property rights. Your property rights only give you the ability to make the decision as to whether or not I am allowed upon said property. They do not cover my actions. That decision as to whether or not I am allowed on the property can be used as a consequence to my actions.

    Mind you I am only referring to those parts of your property rights as they apply to our interactions. Your right to put whatever bloody tree you want on your property has nothing to do with me being or not being on your land. Nor am I allowed to do any damage on your property simply be cause that is not within my rights. Free speech, yeah. Freedom of religion, you betcha. Damage...not a right and in violation of yours. Now I know that you think that this is nitpicking or something along that line, but this is a very important distinction. Especially in this conversation where we are talking about what rights are where and when they can be countered.


    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That's BS. You asked me a question and I answered it. My direct answer was no one has a right to trump another's. Even on your property, you still don't have a right to harass or discriminate against me as a person. All people have inalienable right's.
    So wait a minute? Are you telling me that I can't say that no oriental (had to change it up a bit) person is ever allowed to step foot on my land or in my house, purely on the reason that they are oriental?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    No, a place of business is not the same thing as an exclusive club or your back yard.
    Oh now you are changing things. The bold part in the previous quote is not so limited and now you are putting up limiters. This flip flopping is not helping your argument any.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    No, you are not using force but your power.
    You mean that same power that the customer has to not do business with the owner and thus denying the owner business and resource? Seems to work both ways quite nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But the business owner has no right to demand that the customer buy his products or services...
    The ACA seems to disagree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    In the same vein, an employee has no right to have a job yet we have laws to protect employees from sexual harassment. So, yes, people have no right to a job or buying an item in a private place of business, but they are given protections against such things as sexual harassment and discrimination.
    We have laws that protect against sexual harassment in and outside the workplace. Thus it is an issue that is separate from personal property rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Due process is not force. And, the property owner doesn't haven't limitless rights.
    Nor does the customer.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    So when blacks believed that they had rights that the US government did not recognize, they too were living in a fantasy land? Well then it just goes to prove that fantasies can come true!
    If you are a slave and you believe you are free because you "have rights' the result is the same as if you did not believe you had rights - you were still a slave and you were screwed. Unless the government agrees that you have rights - you may as well be the Mad Hatter at a Tea Party for the Insane.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Only is your sacred property is on your own island nation and you have no others with you. Otherwise - your obsession with your own property ends up the same way... YOUR PRETEND RIGHTS simply do not exist.
    Property and labor are indeed rights. A man has right to his property and his labor.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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