View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1641
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I don't speak for Rand Paul though I think he probably only opposes civil rights laws that violate other rights that he believes essential for a free people. So you'll have to ask him why he holds the opinions that he holds. That is not for me to say.

    And no, I am not missing the point. The point is whether the right to discriminate is more important than a right to be free from discrimination. If we do not have a right to discriminate in who shall have rights to our person and property, wouldn't you agree that would then actually have no rights at all, but only permission to do whatever the authorities allow us to do?
    yes you are indeed missing the point. The minute rand Paul opens his mouth to defend your cherished right to discriminate because of the sanctity of property rights he is dead in the water politically.

    I am NOT a propertytarian and do NOT believe that property rights triumph all other rights nor am i a Halloween costume designer who can drape all manner of objectionable behaviors in the costume of LIBERTY.

    And if you think you have rights that your government does not recognize - you are living in fantasy land.
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  2. #1642
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Without the right to discriminate you can't very well have human rights, so obviously the correct choice here is the right to discriminate.
    I agree, but the first interest of any business is to stay profitable. Discrimination against anyone, apart from being ignorant, is just bad for business.

  3. #1643
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    Seems like a silly response, frankly.
    And I care what you think. Really. I'll be reading your post.

    *snicker*

  4. #1644
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yes you are indeed missing the point. The minute rand Paul opens his mouth to defend your cherished right to discriminate because of the sanctity of property rights he is dead in the water politically.

    I am NOT a propertytarian and do NOT believe that property rights triumph all other rights nor am i a Halloween costume designer who can drape all manner of objectionable behaviors in the costume of LIBERTY.

    And if you think you have rights that your government does not recognize - you are living in fantasy land.
    What Rand Paul does or does not do in the interest of his political health is again his choice, and not something over which I have any control whatsoever.

    But what is your motive here? Is it to trash Rand Paul? Or me? Or to discuss the fundamental concept of discrimination in general. I agree that governments can and do recognize rights. Our Constitution was written on the concept that the people would assign the powers government would have and government would protect, but not assign us, the rights that we have. That is the whole point of this discussion in this thread is it not? What the government recognizes as liberty, i.e. unalienable, as far as our right to our own person and property is concerned?

    So where do you draw the line. What can the government rightfully force you to do with your person, and what should be considered inviolate? What can the government rightfully force you to do with your property, and what should be considered inviolate? Who should have the authority to decide this? And how does that person or persons acquire that authority?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #1645
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yes you are indeed missing the point. The minute rand Paul opens his mouth to defend your cherished right to discriminate because of the sanctity of property rights he is dead in the water politically.

    I am NOT a propertytarian and do NOT believe that property rights triumph all other rights nor am i a Halloween costume designer who can drape all manner of objectionable behaviors in the costume of LIBERTY.

    And if you think you have rights that your government does not recognize - you are living in fantasy land.

    my property rights trump your exercisable rights.......WHEN YOU ARE ON MY PROPERTY..THEY DO.

    when you enter my property, your exercisable rights becomes privileges, that i can allow you to exercise or not.........if i chose you hand bear a firearm on my property, and if i chose not.......you cant, without running afoul of the law.

    we are not a nation were "the people" get to determine what rights, or the when and where the individual citizen can exercise his own rights on his own property....IF he has committed no crime, of endangered the health /safety of the public.

    you discrimination concerns , are based on of your own emotions, and not based on the securing of rights which is why we have government.

  6. #1646
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This thread should be mandatory reading for anyone in a position of power in the Republican party who may have a voice in who will be their 2016 nominee. When you see all the complicated and convoluted mental gymnastics predicated on axioms and beliefs that the justifiers of discrimination have to go through to even pretend to make a point while screaming loudly to anyone who will hear that they are NOT defending bigotry - and consider they can take all the space and time they need to do it - now project such a discussion with its quick sound bites and attack ads in the middle of a Ron Paul presidential campaign if he gets the GOP nod - and you can see what a major train wreck it would be.
    No mental gymnastics happened here. My position has been the same through out the thread. That there is no right to not be discriminated against because in order for such a right to exist it would violate peoples rights to property, speech, and association. A persons Rights end where another persons Rights begin. That is simple fact.

    However the main person that I have been discussing this with has had to change his wording 3 different times to try and make his arguement stick. Failing each and every time. That is where the mental gymnastics are coming from.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yes you are indeed missing the point. The minute rand Paul opens his mouth to defend your cherished right to discriminate because of the sanctity of property rights he is dead in the water politically.

    I am NOT a propertytarian and do NOT believe that property rights triumph all other rights nor am i a Halloween costume designer who can drape all manner of objectionable behaviors in the costume of LIBERTY.

    And if you think you have rights that your government does not recognize - you are living in fantasy land.
    So you don't think people have a right to control access to the property they own? Great, I'll be right over. Hope you have lots of beer in your fridge.

  8. #1648
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No mental gymnastics happened here. My position has been the same through out the thread. That there is no right to not be discriminated against because in order for such a right to exist it would violate peoples rights to property, speech, and association. A persons Rights end where another persons Rights begin. That is simple fact.

    However the main person that I have been discussing this with has had to change his wording 3 different times to try and make his arguement stick. Failing each and every time. That is where the mental gymnastics are coming from.
    That's BS. You asked me a question and I answered it. My direct answer was no one has a right to trump another's. Even on your property, you still don't have a right to harass or discriminate against me as a person. All people have inalienable right's.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That's BS. You asked me a question and I answered it. My direct answer was no one has a right to trump another's. Even on your property, you still don't have a right to harass or discriminate against me as a person. All people have inalienable right's.
    please name the exercisable right which is recognized by the constitution....since you stated inalienable....which the constitution follows those principles of the DOI

    which is life.....liberty and PROPERTY.

    name the right,...please do not give me federal law..like the 1964 civil rights act......because that is not inalienable.

  10. #1650
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    please name the exercisable right which is recognized by the constitution....since you stated inalienable....which the constitution follows those principles of the DOI

    which is life.....liberty and PROPERTY.

    name the right,...please do not give me federal law..like the 1964 civil rights act......because that is not inalienable.
    Property doesn't just mean tangibles, but it also encompasses a person's body and whole being as his property.

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