View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1581
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    No no no...come now - you're telling them how oh-so-non-violent you are, but are you telling them word-for-word that you believe that you believe business owners have a right to deny business to them because of their race?

    Are you really?

    Somehow I'm pretty sure of what your answer will be....
    I have communicated very clearly to them that i don't think I have the right to violate the body or property of my fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will. I state this very, very clearly.

    So, in your mind, does a person engaged in public shopping walking on a public sidewalk have the right to refuse to do business with a shopkeeper because of the color of the shopkeeper's skin?

  2. #1582
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I'll disagree here only because private businesses would be the ones engaging in sales between states, therefore there would be some regulation on such private businesses. However, that regulation is only supposed to be on actual interstate commerce. For example, if my company makes a widget, if I am selling it only within my state, then any applicable state laws apply, and the federal level isn't supposed to make any regulation over it. Now if I want to sell my widget in other states, then per the commerce clause they can make regulations regarding my widgets. However those regulations would only apply to the widgets I want to sell out of state. All of my in-state commerce is still only covered by state regulations. Similarly, if I am selling my widgets to another company that is within my state and that company wishes to sell them out of state, the regulations apply to them and not me. So if the regulation was, say no more than 5 manufactured holes in the widget, if I was the one selling them out of state, I would have to manufacture them to that spec. If I'm only selling to the other businesses, then I can still make widgets with 6 holes and he can buy them if he wants, but he'll not be able to sell them out of state due to the federal regulations.
    The reason why it was directed at commerce between the states is to prevent one state from putting a tarriff on another states goods while keeping it low for another state for the same goods. It was meant to prevent the States from bickering with each other. That is also why the Federal government was meant to be the official arbiter between the states. The Founders wanted to hold everyone together in case another country wanted to invade and take over. And what better way to invade than to divide and conquer? The Founders tried to put in things that would help keep that to a minimum. The States themselves were the ones that were supposed to regulate businesses.
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  3. #1583
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by jesshymann View Post
    Freedom From Discrimination! Who wants to be discriminated here???
    I get discriminated against all the time. Do you see me complaining about it?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  4. #1584
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by jesshymann View Post
    Freedom From Discrimination! Who wants to be discriminated here???
    How far are you willing to take the principle? Keep in mind that the OP gave no qualifiers or limiters on the two principles. Only a single example.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  5. #1585
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I get discriminated against all the time. Do you see me complaining about it?
    Of course you do. Klingons are one of the most misunderstood and discriminated races in the Alpha quadrant, followed right behind by Romulans and Cardassians.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  6. #1586
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Which is more important: the "right" to discriminate, or freedom from discrimination?

    Remember, you can't have both. If a business refuses to serve someone because he's black, and he refuses to leave and the business calls the cops to enforce their "right"...it is at that moment that we have government-enforced racism.

    Is that really what we want?
    I think that you have a major equivocation in your argument. In my dictionary discrimination does not equal racism. One may discriminate against a multitude of behaviors and cultural practices without holding a bit of racist animosity. Secondly, there should be a distinction in the question between institutional discrimination (enforced by governmental statute or power) and an individual who discriminates.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No actually its not. Its historical fact. Read up on the Founders Notes. The States did not want the Federal government interfereing with what happened inside the States.
    Others had a different opinion.

  8. #1588
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    That doesn't answer the question of in what way these other people are different and special.
    Point is under due process all are treated the same. The property owner who feels he has a right to violate another person due to race can have his day in court along with the person who was refused service. The judge will decide.

  9. #1589
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Point is under due process all are treated the same. The property owner who feels he has a right to violate another person due to race can have his day in court along with the person who was refused service. The judge will decide.
    Or he can work on having the law corrected legislatively. Also due process in this context.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Or he can work on having the law corrected legislatively. Also due process in this context.
    Sure, the law can be challenged. I'm sure Alec will model a bill if they already haven't. Something along the line of property owners have the right to violate another's persons right due to a Civil Right's violation because all power should lie with them. Anything else is a conflict of interest.

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