View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1441
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    democracy is a democratic form of government......there is NO balance

    the constitution creates a republican form of government........there is balance

    article 4
    Section. 4.

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.
    And a republican form of government is what we have and even your yourself have admitted it. You have no complaint.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Talk about over dramatizing things. Tell me, where were the riots when Rush Limbaugh said a racist statement (multiple times across the years)? Are there currently riots happening with Cliven Bundy?

    And if there are riots? That's what the national guard and police are for. To keep the peace. People do not have a right to riot. Nor can they violate other peoples rights just because of some perception that they have.

    And yes, it would be comforting that rights are being upheld even while I'm getting beat up.
    I don't know if you realize this, but there's a BIG difference between WORDS and ACTIONS. Rush and Bundy are examples of WORDS. Not allowing blacks to come in and get served at a diner is an ACTION. Oh, and so is a black guy getting beat up by four cops, and the cops getting declared innocent. There were no riots at all then, were there?
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    My answer to you is that I don't think for one second that there would be riots.

    So I've answered your question, but you haven't answered mine yet. Do you think you have the right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will?
    You don't think there would be riots...even after I pointed out to you what happened after Rodney King.

    You go on now, guy - keep standing proudly for your "right" to discriminate, to use that ugly twist of 'logic' you keep pretending is a legitimate question in order take away from others their freedom from discrimination. Keep doing that, and stand proudly for those politicians who believe as you do on the Right. In fact, PLEASE keep doing so! I hope the whole nation gets to hear what you have to say about it - you can stand proudly by your boy Cliven Bundy and wave your American flag and stuff...

    ...and the rest of the nation will see yet more proof of why white supremacists support the political Right - or at least hate it a lot less than they hate the political Left.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You don't think there would be riots...even after I pointed out to you what happened after Rodney King.

    You go on now, guy - keep standing proudly for your "right" to discriminate, to use that ugly twist of 'logic' you keep pretending is a legitimate question in order take away from others their freedom from discrimination. Keep doing that, and stand proudly for those politicians who believe as you do on the Right. In fact, PLEASE keep doing so! I hope the whole nation gets to hear what you have to say about it - you can stand proudly by your boy Cliven Bundy and wave your American flag and stuff...

    ...and the rest of the nation will see yet more proof of why white supremacists support the political Right - or at least hate it a lot less than they hate the political Left.
    And you continue to refuse to state whether you think you have the right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will. Fascinating, and very, very telling.
    Last edited by Federalist; 04-26-14 at 12:15 PM.

  5. #1445
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Like I have said all along, if any business takes government money then they should not be allowed to discriminate. What "is and isn't currently" does not concern me as much as what "should be".
    Doesn't that always seem to be the way they argue? "Oh if you're against this then you must be supporting that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What IS driving my arguement is The Peoples Rights. No one has the Right to force me or anyone else to sell my/their property to anyone unless I/they want to. It is my/their property. I/They have the say in who it is sold to. No one else does. Not even the government.
    Ok given this statement You've brought to mind a different set of conditions. Do you hold this to be true only in the realm of this country or is this a universal stance. IOW, if the US were to impose sanctions (I believe this is the word I'm looking for but correct me if I'm wrong) and ban the sale of goods to say China for labor sweat shop issues, or Saudi Arabia for nuclear weapon issues, is the government allowed to say that you can't sell to business and individuals in those countries? I realize that in a way it is opposite to the current thread in that the government is saying you can't sell instead of you must sell, but it still runs upon the same principle of the government telling you what to do with your property where that action does not invoke direct harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I don't know if you realize this, but there's a BIG difference between WORDS and ACTIONS. Rush and Bundy are examples of WORDS. Not allowing blacks to come in and get served at a diner is an ACTION. Oh, and so is a black guy getting beat up by four cops, and the cops getting declared innocent. There were no riots at all then, were there?
    Given that we have riots when sports teams lose, is this really a point? Maybe we should be banning sporting events. The four cops beating up the black man were in direct violation of his rights and freedoms. But declared innocent was a travesty of justice. It is not a reason to violate other rights. You don't fix a wrong with a wrong. The King incident and riots would not be changed in anyway by allowing business owners to choose who they do and do not sell to for any reason.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Doesn't that always seem to be the way they argue? "Oh if you're against this then you must be supporting that."
    Yup: "If you don't think you you have the right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will, then you must be a racist and support racism."

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yup: "If you don't think you you have the right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will, then you must be a racist and support racism."
    You get the same thing over in the Abortion threads, and even in some of the incest threads in Sex and Sexuality. "I don't like it therefore I will remove your rights and claim you never had the right to start with."
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  8. #1448
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And a republican form of government is what we have and even your yourself have admitted it. You have no complaint.
    You asked me this question before and I believe i stated it was debatable.

  9. #1449
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I don't know if you realize this, but there's a BIG difference between WORDS and ACTIONS. Rush and Bundy are examples of WORDS. Not allowing blacks to come in and get served at a diner is an ACTION. Oh, and so is a black guy getting beat up by four cops, and the cops getting declared innocent. There were no riots at all then, were there?
    I think Maquistcat answered this fairly well. I would just like to add that there is a difference between denying a priviledge (me letting you buy my property) and that of cops beating up someone which violates thier rights...and getting away with it. As I have said countless times in this thread. As long as a person does not violate another persons rights then they can do what they want with their property.

    One thing that I have noticed through out my talking in this thread is that I have given proof as to why people have the right to discriminate based on the Rights that we currently have and are upheld by SCOTUS as Rights. Yet no one has given proof as to why people have a right to not be discriminated against. They've given opinions. But no proof.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    IOW, if the US were to impose sanctions (I believe this is the word I'm looking for but correct me if I'm wrong) and ban the sale of goods to say China for labor sweat shop issues, or Saudi Arabia for nuclear weapon issues, is the government allowed to say that you can't sell to business and individuals in those countries? I realize that in a way it is opposite to the current thread in that the government is saying you can't sell instead of you must sell, but it still runs upon the same principle of the government telling you what to do with your property where that action does not invoke direct harm
    As if slave labor doesn't invoke direct harm. Oh, but by gosh a private owner treating people like slaves is perfectly his right.

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