View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1411
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You'll notice I violate Godwin's Law but rarely...but you certainly needed to be reminded of where legally-allowed discrimination and prejudice can lead.
    Except that in Nazi Germany they had government legally enforced discrimination. You'll note that through out this entire thread I have been adamant that the government is not allowed to discriminate. There is a huge difference between government enforced discrimination and private discrimination. Enforced government discrimination has led to countless deaths (not just by nazi's but by a wide variety of races and cultures) and slavery. Which is a violation of peoples rights. Individual discrimination cannot lead to such as there is no force to allow such.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    If, as you state, nobody violates the body or property of the person who discriminates, then there's no actual effect to the law, so then I don't care.
    A law that requires that you can't deny your business to someone based just on how they were born is NOT "violating your body or property".
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Except that in Nazi Germany they had government legally enforced discrimination. You'll note that through out this entire thread I have been adamant that the government is not allowed to discriminate. There is a huge difference between government enforced discrimination and private discrimination. Enforced government discrimination has led to countless deaths (not just by nazi's but by a wide variety of races and cultures) and slavery. Which is a violation of peoples rights. Individual discrimination cannot lead to such as there is no force to allow such.
    Yet the moment a business owner calls the police to remove the people that that business owner wants to discriminate against, we WOULD have "government legally-enforced discrimination". What do you not understand about that?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  4. #1414
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yet the moment a business owner calls the police to remove the people that that business owner wants to discriminate against, we WOULD have "government legally-enforced discrimination". What do you not understand about that?
    No, that is the government enforcing peoples rights. There is a difference. The consumer then has the right to picket and protest and boycott that business owner making them lose business. The business owner has no legal recourse at that point. As I've said several times in this thread, there are postives and negatives that are inherent in Rights. So long as no other rights are infringed then those negatives are just something that has to be tolerated. Otherwise freedom is lost.

    Would you make the same statement if someone refused a person of a different color entry into their homes?
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Do you know what the Federalist Papers were?
    yes, i do i also know what the notes of the convention say.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    A law that requires that you can't deny your business to someone based just on how they were born is NOT "violating your body or property".
    Yes, actually it is. It is telling you what to do with your property. "Sell it (your property) to this person or get punished."
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Just because you're an "individual person" (which also applies to ALL other people) doesn't give you some kind of "right" to discriminate against others. If a thing you do does deliberate harm to other people - as discrimination certainly does - then you do NOT somehow have a right to do that thing.
    glen i have a right to discriminate..i don't have to like you , deal with you ,trade with you, associate with you, and you have no exercisable rights on my property to stop me.

    why are you insisting on forcing something on me..i do not wish to do?

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You'll notice I violate Godwin's Law but rarely...but you certainly needed to be reminded of where legally-allowed discrimination and prejudice can lead.
    False comparison. The Nazi's made the discrimination a mandated part of the legal system, which we are very much against. At no point have any of us supported government mandated discrimination which is what both the Nazi's and the Jim Crow laws did. There is a major difference between allowing discrimination and requiring it.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If I was talking of a different type of servitude then why is it that 1: you did not actually address what I said? and 2: how could I use your own definitions and apply them as I have?

    BTW: you're making a strawman by trying to focus only on police. They are a part of the government and as such are not allowed, nor should they ever be allowed, to discriminate. Plus they are employee's, not business owners. Which is our topic of discussion.



    But you are forcing them to either serve someone or go out of business, or not be able to exercise their right to start and run their own business. You are forcing them to either choose to live a certain way or get punished. And you are denying them the right to association. People have a right to go into business for themselves so long as that business does not interfere in other peoples rights. Denying to serve someone is not violating anyones right as no one has a right to force people to sell their property to them. I met and answered and applied your definition of servitude to store owners. Yet you still discount it...actually you ignored it. You didn't once address my points. Just went off on another point, partially repeating yourself.

    No, someone else try to explain the difference. You didn't seem to follow it. I said said it wasn't the same thing. You said they were. I them explained the difference.

    Now, if you'll concede the difference we can move on, as I said.

    And no, they have manly laws to follow when they choose to go into business. It's the nature if business. Now, you don't have to go into business. No one makes you. But when you choose to, as with many other professions, you accept that you will have to follow the rules. So, you have choice, and you get compensated. So in no way is it servitude.

    Btw, denying them service does interfere with their rights. We have a long history on this to draw from. We only have to look at it see the effect of such denials.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #1420
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No, that is the government enforcing peoples rights. There is a difference.
    And THAT is where you are confusing your personal opinion with the reality of human nature. It does. not. matter. whether you are right are wrong - REPEAT, it does. not. matter. whether you are right or wrong.

    Why?

    Because you are forgetting that when it comes to human nature - particularly with the masses - perception IS reality. Pass a bill that allows discrimination, and the first time it occurs - and occur it will - the video of it will be spread across the planet in a matter of minutes. And what will happen then? Riots in the area of the discriminating business...and all the problems and danger that goes along with riots.

    Hatred between the races will grow as a direct result. More people will die. And the hatred and spite that is ever-so-slowly going away from the time of Jim Crow will come roaring back. Do you think I'm exaggerating? We had more riots across the nation during the 1960's than at any other comparable period in American history. Think about it, guy - the PERCEPTION among nonwhites, and among blacks in particular, would be that we ARE going back to Jim Crow...and all your twisted logic to the contrary won't make a tinker's damn of a difference. The PERCEPTION is all that really matters...and suddenly you've got over ten million blacks - and tens of millions more of Hispanics - who will have the PERCEPTION that White America is turning against them...and they will not sit idly or peacefully by and allow it to happen.

    But hey - as you and yours get shot at, at least you'll be able to tell your wife and children as they're ducking from bullets, "See? Now we've got REAL freedom!" I'm suuuure they'd much rather have that than being able to walk down the street in peace, huh?

    Sometimes, guy, "freedom" ain't what you think it is.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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