View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1381
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    again, jim crow laws were government instituted discrimination laws.......i cant believe your guys keep throwing that back into the mix, ..i guess because you have got nothing else.

    constitutional law is supreme law, and no law is higher, not federal or state, you cannot make a law which overrides the constitutional law.
    Yeah, well get over it because there is one called the Civil Rights Law. Why don't you take up the good fight with the Supreme Court. I'm sure you'd get funding.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yeah, well get over it because there is one called the Civil Rights Law. Why don't you take up the good fight with the Supreme Court. I'm sure you'd get funding.
    if you want to get into supreme law i will tell you something that will shock you and you will say ...what?????

    the u.s. congress has no legislative authority on state or private property at all

    all one has to do is read article 1 section 8 clause 17 of the Constitution, and the constitutional convention notes, of the founders sept 5 1787....as they talk about that clause, a Mr. Gerry states they have no authority, but only on federal property.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if you want to get into supreme law i will tell you something that will shock you and you will say ...what?????

    the u.s. congress has no legislative authority on state or private property at all

    all one has to do is read article 1 section 8 clause 17 of the Constitution, and the constitutional convention notes, of the founders sept 5 1787....as they talk about that clause, a Mr. Gerry states they have no authority, but only on federal property.
    Well of course they do in a private hospital.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Well of course they do in a private hospital.
    sorry no... the federal government was given no legislative role in the lifes liberty property of the American people...as stated in federalist 45

    the federal government is only given legislative authority on federal property only.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Bold: Does the business owner have liberty in who he/she sells their property to? Answer: No. As such he/she lacks liberty in determining their course/way of life.

    Underlined: By telling the owner that they must sell to X person or get punished even if that owner is racist against that person you are inherently forcing them to sell their property to someone for their specified use or enjoyment.

    Like I said, no twisting done.
    Focus: the point was police officer are not in that type of servitude. Before we go on, admit you're talking about something different as I said you were and you disagreed. You guys dance too hard sometimes.

    Second, once we're agreed, you're wrong. No one is forcing them to be in business. Nor are they uncompensated. Nor are they not free to live their type of life. They can still gobble up cheese burgers, smoke a pack a day, and drink booze all night. They're free to live as they please. They just can't walk nude in the Mall, rob a 7-11, or discriminate against a paying customer. So don't be hyperbolic. No one is in servitude.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry no... the federal government was given no legislative role in the lifes liberty property of the American people...as stated in federalist 45

    the federal government is only given legislative authority on federal property only.
    Why do I care what the federalist papers say?

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    No doubt racism still exist but not on the same scale seen before the Civil Rights Movement. Sadly, many people that dispense this kind of stuff were too young to feel any effects from that kind of toxic environment. So, the thinking goes....big deal racism will always exist so let's not be concerned. It's pretty easy for a person that has never been barred from transportation, restaurants, shops etc...over and over again to say "no big deal just go somewhere else". Many, who are old enough, do know what that creates. You know what they say about repeating history? The ONLY people oppressed in this scenario are those being barred from these everyday activities we take for granted. If someone wants to open business all that is being asked is to take responsibility when you work with the public. That is not the same thing as being reduced to a servant.
    They're not being asked. They're being forced. There is a difference.

    There is also a difference between what happened Pre-Civil Rights era and what I am suggesting. Pre-Civil Rights they had laws that were made, supported, and enforced segregation by the government. That is something which you are failing to mention in your talks about the Civil Rights. It was government force that was creating an air of fear and hatred because a black would go to prison for violating the laws by sitting next to a white person. What I am suggesting leaves the government totally out of it. The government cannot support or enforce segregation.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    According to Gallup, more than half of Americans say they "do not respect" Muslims, and in turn, more than half of Muslims say they are not treated as equal. You make strides with one group and another becomes the target. There will always be a group of people who are hated and feared, and discrimination laws are a large part of what ensure that they will be able to pursue success and happiness without unbreakable barriers.
    That is in large part due to media demonizing them because of 9/11. Before then they were barely a blip on anyones radar. As for them not being treated as equal...in what way? Poor people say that they are not treated equally all the time. Doesn't make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    The responsibility comment still makes no sense. I'm trying to put it into context. So my ancestor, a Jew, was refused treatment at the only reputable hospital he could get to in time for emergency surgery. So, you're saying that he needed to take responsibility and do the surgery himself? Or you're saying that other Jews, instead of being outraged that he was allowed to die, should have worked hard to build their own hospital? Then they could have had "separate but equal" hospitals and it would have made the Jews even more outcast.

    My contention is that they should have been outraged and lobbied for a law that prevented discrimination, because it didn't matter how hard they worked if people were still going to treat them as animals because of their religion.
    I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about now. They had a legitimate claim 70+ years ago. Not so much today. Today alot (not all) of blacks still claim that "The Man" is holding them down. Never mind the fact that they can get full scholarships just because they are black. Never mind that bleeding hearts have lowered test scores because blacks have been testing lower than whites. I've been from one coast of the US to the other. Lived in Washington state and South Carolina and alot of states in between and to the side. I've not once met a dumb black person. But I have met plenty of lazy ones. Test scores should not be lowered just because many blacks have a habit of being lazy. Partly because they think that "The Man" owes them. And yes, i've met blacks who have said that very thing..that they are taking advantage of government programs because "The Man" owes them. Never mind that they weren't even born until 20 years ago. Now do you understand?

    And before you (general "you") go into some self righteous mode please note that I said "many"...not all. I've also met alot of blacks that worked their asses off and are better off than me by far. And there are alot more that I haven't met but are examples that blacks can succeed. There are lots of black politicians, scientists, sports stars (Michael Jordan anyone?) and other vocations.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #1389
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Focus: the point was police officer are not in that type of servitude. Before we go on, admit you're talking about something different as I said you were and you disagreed. You guys dance too hard sometimes.
    If I was talking of a different type of servitude then why is it that 1: you did not actually address what I said? and 2: how could I use your own definitions and apply them as I have?

    BTW: you're making a strawman by trying to focus only on police. They are a part of the government and as such are not allowed, nor should they ever be allowed, to discriminate. Plus they are employee's, not business owners. Which is our topic of discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Second, once we're agreed, you're wrong. No one is forcing them to be in business. Nor are they uncompensated. Nor are they not free to live their type of life. They can still gobble up cheese burgers, smoke a pack a day, and drink booze all night. They're free to live as they please. They just can't walk nude in the Mall, rob a 7-11, or discriminate against a paying customer. So don't be hyperbolic. No one is in servitude.
    But you are forcing them to either serve someone or go out of business, or not be able to exercise their right to start and run their own business. You are forcing them to either choose to live a certain way or get punished. And you are denying them the right to association. People have a right to go into business for themselves so long as that business does not interfere in other peoples rights. Denying to serve someone is not violating anyones right as no one has a right to force people to sell their property to them. I met and answered and applied your definition of servitude to store owners. Yet you still discount it...actually you ignored it. You didn't once address my points. Just went off on another point, partially repeating yourself.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Why do I care what the federalist papers say?
    Do you know what the Federalist Papers were?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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