View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

Voters
115. You may not vote on this poll
  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
Page 135 of 230 FirstFirst ... 3585125133134135136137145185 ... LastLast
Results 1,341 to 1,350 of 2291

Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1341
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, you have a right to be a prejudiced as you want - but you do NOT have a right to discriminate against other people on the basis of how they were born. YOUR freedom ends where the other guy's freedom begins.

    Sorry, guy, but that is not a "God-given" human right - that's nothing more than a twist of logic used by racists to excuse their actions.
    wrong, i am an individual person, not a government i can discriminate if i wish, i don't have to like you sell you trade to deal with you in any way.

    you unfortunately, do not believe in the rights of the people........and do not recolonize right to property or association

    .

  2. #1342
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    15,548

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Apples and oranges. He talks about doing things that discriminate but does not interfere with other peoples rights. You on the other hand talk about violating peoples rights.
    No, you're using a twist of logic to excuse racists violating the rights of other people. You've got a right to be every bit as racist as you want...but you do NOT have a right to stop someone from patronizing a business open to the public based on how they were born. You do NOT have that 'right' - because it's NOT a right. It's an excuse, just like the excuses that humans have used throughout all human history to do wrong to other people.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #1343
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Thank you for answering so nicely. Sorrily I do not quite understand, what you are getting at and do not want to comment without understanding, what you mean. Could you, do you think, put that in language I might understand?
    ok, for you sir.

    the constitution states in the very first line, its grants powers to congress.

    the constitution however does not grant any rights to the people, .......the constitution recognizes rights of the people.

    the bill of rights, are declaratory and restrictive clauses placed on the federal government, barring them from creating any law which would violate the recognized rights in the Constitution or those rights which have been recognized by the USSC.

    right to property and association....... are recognized rights

    it is unconstitutional for government to create a law, violating those rights.

    laws are constructed to secure rights of the people.........that is the sole purpose we have governments ....nothing more.

    since discrimination is not a rights violation[its not a crime], and it does not endanger the health and safety of the public, the government has no authority to act.



    democracy places all power into the hands of "the people"...there is no balance.

    the founders republican form of government of the Constitution, places power in 3 places, the people, the states, and the electors........that is a balance of power.
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-25-14 at 11:56 AM.

  4. #1344
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:56 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,415

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ok, for you sir.

    the constitution states in the very first line, its grants powers to congress.

    the constitution however does not grant any rights to the people, .......the constitution recognizes rights of the people.

    the bill of rights, are declaratory and restrictive clauses placed on the federal government, barring them from creating any law which would violate the recognized rights in the Constitution or those rights which have been recognized by the USSC.

    right to property and association....... are recognized rights

    it is unconstitutional for government to create a law, violating those rights.

    laws are constructed to secure rights of the people.........that is the sole purpose we have governments ....nothing more.

    since discrimination is not a rights violation[its not a crime], and it does not endanger the health and safety of the public, the government has no authority to act.



    democracy places all power into the hands of "the people"...there is no balance.

    the founders republican form of government of the Constitution, places power in 3 places, the people, the states, and the electors........that is a balance of power.
    Aha. So there is a balance of powers in democracies, is what you are saying.

  5. #1345
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Aha. So there is a balance of powers in democracies, is what you are saying.
    democracy is a democratic form of government......there is NO balance

    the constitution creates a republican form of government........there is balance

    article 4
    Section. 4.

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

  6. #1346
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,772

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    This is exactly why some "members-only" clubs/organizations/associations exist...exclusive membership at the exclusion of others who don't meet eligibility requirements. And if sex, race, marital status, income/education level, religion, etc., etc. are prerequisites for membership, I don't think most people would have a problem with not including those who wouldn't otherwise qualify. Of course, it's a different story when a facility that any reasonable person knows should be open to the public as you've stated and certain people are kept out, i.e., public swimming pool or a dinner on Route 66.
    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    By definition it is a public pool and thus owned by a government entity of some level, which automatically means no discrimination. Government doesn't have rights like people have.
    I know that. That's why I used public pools as an example. It works better than trying to use a privately owned restaurant or department store.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  7. #1347
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,880
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    No, you're using a twist of logic to excuse racists violating the rights of other people. You've got a right to be every bit as racist as you want...but you do NOT have a right to stop someone from patronizing a business open to the public based on how they were born. You do NOT have that 'right' - because it's NOT a right. It's an excuse, just like the excuses that humans have used throughout all human history to do wrong to other people.
    Actually a person does have that right. Via free speech, freedom of association, the right to boycott, and the right to private property.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  8. #1348
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,880
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That's not at all what I meant. I simply mean treating people like people. You don't send them to the back of the bus because someone feels they are inferior. You don't tell them they can't make a purchase like your other consumers because you feel they are not worthy of your goods.
    The government is not allowed to do that. Private indivduals have that right. For example, if I wish to get married in a catholic church should I be able to sue them if they refuse because I'm not catholic? Happens all the time you know. They do so because they feel that the other person is not worthy. Is inferior. Just an fyi, I was refused to be married to my wife from a church. Not catholic, but christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Also, to suggest that it's only offending someone by not allowing them services is entirely missing the point. You are preventing them from accessing those resources on top of creating a society of exclusion and segregation which creates fear and violence. You are creating a society where people are allowed to deny services based on emotions. The most ironic thing is you are probably going to move people away from privatizing resources because they will fear that they will be deemed less worthy to purchase them and fear they will have to go without, have to pay a premium in order to get it or have to search around for like minded people to allow them access. That's really not very pragmatic at all.
    No one is preventing them from accessing resources. There are plenty of Ipods and cell phones, and tv's out there.

    As for creating a society of exclusion and fear....that's been around for ages and many of them are fully acceptable. For example schools, do you know how many cliques are in schools that exclude those that do not conform to their way of thinking and beliefs? Even cliques of race. Yet we don't admonish black children to let white children hang out with them. And visa versa. We don't admonish cheerleaders to let the nerds hang out with them. Or the jocks and the goths. Like it or not society naturally segregates itself. And yet...we do not have a society of fear.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #1349
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,880
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    No one is forcing someone to sell their property.
    Sorry? Forcing an owner to sell a product to someone that they are racist against is not forcing them to sell their property? What is it then?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #1350
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,880
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they serve. They get a pay check and seek to do the job. They way you use servant is in the terms of unwilling, slavish. That is hyperbole. And you do infringe on people rights when you take a class and deny service without justification.
    1: No, police are government employees. The government is the servant of the people. Just because you get paid does not mean anything. Both may be temporary in their servitude. But the servitude is still there. Servitude does not have a time limit or lasts forever. And you can't tell me that there are not cops out there that are not prejudiced yet are forced to help those that they are prejudiced against on penalty of losing their jobs.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •