View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1151
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The original meaning of the term did in fact refer to rights, but under the current meaning of the term, it does not.
    What?

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If there's one thing I've found, it's that every single person who cries out that America is a tyranny or this or that American political party wants a tyranny...has precisely zero clue as to what a tyranny is.

    And no, in the cases to which I refer, the government's not "using injustice" - sometimes it's war, and sometimes it's business as usual, and sometimes it's doing the bidding of the mega-corporations...but you, sir, have rights only until the USA (or whatever nation you happen to be in) decides it's in the best interest of the nation to take those rights away. Sorry, guy, but that's reality.

    well lets replay what you and i discussed...you asked me question of history, and its founders, and law..i provided the answers, which you cannot rebutt........now you tell me i know nothing.......hmmmmmm .strange!

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I think it's great if one wants to better themselves. What does that have to do with denying someone the right to buy a bottle of water in your store because you don't like my attributes?
    Simple. If the sellers doesn't find it in their interest to trade with you then they will not be motivated to take part in a transaction with you.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Nope, then they are using their body to create a product which at no time is part of the creator's body. I'm strictly talking about direct sale of one's actual body, not the same at all.
    What do you think the sale of labor is?

  5. #1155
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Sure. "Open to the public" does not mean absolutely anyone who wants to be there can be there any time they like (unless that's the way the owner of the place wants it). You understand this, yes?
    Um, actually, "open to the public" DOES mean anyone (who does not present a danger or undue disruption to the business) CAN come in any time they like. And whether you like it or not, being of a different color is NOT an "undue disruption" of the business.

    For your edification, a legal definition of "public":

    Pertaining to a state, nation, or whole community; proceeding from, re- lating to, or affecting the whole body of people or an entire community. Open to all; notorious. Common to all or many; general ; open to common use. Morgan v. Cree, 46 Vt. 786, 14 Am. Rep. 640; Crane v. Waters (C. C.) 10 Fed. 621; Austin v. Soule, 36 Vt. 650; Appeal of Eliot, 74 Coun. 586, 51 Atl. 558; 0′IIara v. Miller, 1 Kulp (Pa.) 295.

    Sorry, but I don't see any exceptions there for people of different colors.

    I'm pretty sure my town had such a thing, but not in my lifetime. We had plenty of racists. I was one of them when I was a kid. Know what changed my mind? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't being forced to hang around a black guy by law.
    You're the only one I've ever seen other than myself who ever owned up to being a racist in his or her youth. Kudos to you - that's not always an easy admission. That said, it wasn't a lynching that changed my mind, either - it was a career in the Navy, finding out first-hand that people all over the world are the same (with allowances for local culture).
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  6. #1156
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well lets replay what you and i discussed...you asked me question of history, and its founders, and law..i provided the answers, which you cannot rebutt........now you tell me i know nothing.......hmmmmmm .strange!
    The fact that you did not accept my rebuttal as such doesn't mean I didn't effectively rebut you - it only means you didn't accept it.

    And speaking of strange, you oh-so-seriously warn of tyranny is what the Left wants, yet you're the one with what certainly looks like a picture of a soldier of the Wehrmacht as an avatar, and your "location" is "on the battlefield pointing my Luger". Judging by your name, you're probably German - though that's by no means any guarantee - and maybe you're just proud of Germany's military past...

    ...but if you're as staunchly against tyranny as your words indicate, I find it strange that your avatar and "location" are such as they are.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #1157
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You said your problem with just and unjust discrimination is your own inability to differentiate between the two, and that this has lead you to an absolutist position.
    Not at all. I didn't say that I cannot tell the difference between positions. I do, however, believe that other people have different oppinions on the basis of other inputs and what else. I believe that any of us can be wrong and that therfore in normal times a society is better served, if it allows equal opportunity of expression.

  8. #1158
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    SPEECH is not the same thing as "You can't eat in this restaurant because you're black".
    The action is irrelevant. If something is based in racism and the government needs to step in to protect someone's right to that action, be it speech or denying access to private property, then by your logic it is government enforced racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I believe that govt-supported discrimination is wrong and should continue to be illegal.
    I think it might be better worded as discrimination by government and government mandated discrimination. Outside of business, I can be racist and discriminatory till the cows come home and the government has to support my right to be so. Which is why the whole argument of "government enforced racism" is bunk when applied to rights of individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    ...but if they acquire a business license (which gives certain rights, like limited liability) then they have to conform to some laws such as no discrimination against certain classes.

    That's it, its no big deal and nobody is losing anything since they don't have to volunteer to get a business license anyway. That's life, there is a trade off and people act like its some sort of horrible thing that they have to make a trade off.
    I think that there are very few people who argue what the law is in regards to business licenses. What is being argued is whether or not those laws are proper. Some are arguing that it is a violation of private property rights and freedom of association to have such laws that require non-discrimination. Laws exist regardless of whether or not rights are being violated. Blacks' rights were being violated the entire time that slavery existed, yet the laws were there.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Not at all. I didn't say that I cannot tell the difference between positions. I do, however, believe that other people have different oppinions on the basis of other inputs and what else. I believe that any of us can be wrong and that therfore in normal times a society is better served, if it allows equal opportunity of expression.
    what you and others believe is governments can create laws, to take away people rights, because a person gets his feeling hurt thru discrimination which is not a rights violation, ..you also want to deny right to property, and act as though it does not exist, even thought it does in our founding documents. your position is based on emotional content, and not supreme law, you seek to rule by majority instead of constitutional law , or rule of law, its very sad, when people do not understand basic constitutional law, once they taught civics, of coarse it used to be called "American government" in school, ..however the education system has become a joke!

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Actually it's because he supports your right to be a bigot, which you have chosen to be with this statement. You have every right to be a bigot, but's it's not flattering.
    What the heck do you mean by "which you have chosen to be with this statement"?
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