View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1081
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If you force me into a transaction then I'm forced to provide my labor for your benefit. That is involuntary servitude.
    Then don't break a sweat ringing me up at the register. Have someone else
    Last edited by rabbitcaebannog; 04-24-14 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #1082
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    There is no right for a buissness to designate lunch counters as "whites only" or "blacks only".

    "Seperate but equal" is unconstitutional.
    That refers to government, not private citizens.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, it does. not. matter. what YOUR ethical beliefs are. The worst mistake people make is, "well, everything would be better if"...and then they go using whatever rhetoric to back up what they think is eminently logical.
    Do you feel that you have the right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will?

    Problem is, there IS such a thing as "too much freedom". Yes, now that your head has stopped exploding, there IS such a thing as "too much freedom". You can't go shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, you can't say the word "bomb" when you're about to go on a plane, and you can't say "My restaurant won't serve you because you're black"...because in all three examples, Very Bad Things happen when you do.
    I totally agree that people can endanger others through their words or actions. However, you're comparing apples to oranges. Not trading with someone doesn't endanger them in any way, shape, or form.

    You can have your "right to discriminate" and the Very Bad Things (like riots, lynchings, etc.) that would go along with it...or you can have your "freedom from discrimination" and the relative peaceful society that comes with it. But you CANNOT have both.
    I'm not convinced by your predictions of a nightmare scenario.

  4. #1084
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am not?.....so if you enter my hamburger shop, and order a burger, and i say...no, i am not serving you... of coarse you cannot force me by physical means, however you use the power of government to force me by coercion.

    the government tells me, make that burger for her.......or we will put you out of business.....what do i do?, serve you a hamburger, or get forced out of business by the government....which is government coercion, and unlawful, because i have not committed a crime, which would be the only way that situation you have there for government coercion.
    Then you become my slave by serving me in your restaurant and I pay you for that service? That seems pretty far fetched to a reasonable person.

  5. #1085
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Business is a transaction. If people want to look at it as liberty then they must realize liberty needs to be for both parties. The only way to do this is to not attach emotions to transactions. If you do, you run the risk of producing an oppressive society.
    No, business is a service. A transaction is when money changes hands.

    Bold: Seriously? We're talking about human beings here. There is not one single person alive that has no emotions. Not one single action is taken without emotions.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  6. #1086
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that makes no sense....what did he not write?
    There's a difference between writing what you WANT to write...and writing what is AGREED UPON by a great many men...and there were more than a few shouting matches at the Constitutional Convention over what should be in the Constitution.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Then you become my slave by serving me in your restaurant and I pay you for that service? That seems pretty far fetched to a reasonable person.
    everything i said is true, that is how the current way of government force works.

  8. #1088
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't think people can truly be at peace until they are truly free and by extension the society can not truly be at peace until all people are truly free. This cannot be done under a system that relies on government or relies on community or promotes collectivism, but only under one that promotes individuality and voluntary exchange that allows individuals to practice their sovereignty at a cost they decide on. If however, you allow society or government to be the tool that decides the cost people are willing to pay for their lives then people will combat amongst themselves and the society itself will be in a constant state of war due to the individual desire for personal liberty being undermined by hostile forces. This will not only make individuals that wish to maintain their just liberty fight, but people that wish to use the government or society to gain more liberty than they are justly permitted to fight, and thus, as society moves forward conflict and war will only grow until the society itself crumbles at its feet.
    I disagree with that. Peace is acceptance. Its an individual decision and not a result of a way of life. Besides, it won't happen anyway, too many differing priorities. If society swings too much in any direct, some group is going to be upset and try to change it to their preferred way. That's just the way it is. If the more libertarian types get their way, then the more typical types are going to fight back as a result. There are specific subtypes that prefer a more libertarian style of things, but that priority is only one of many.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    It's a skit by Monty Python. I had to cut the 'r' off because your username can only have 15 letters.

    Holy Grail - Killer Bunny - YouTube
    I don't have to watch it - it's the Vorpal Bunny, followed by the Holy Hand Grenade! One of the great scenes, not too long after the "Knights who say 'Ni'" scene IIRC.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #1090
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Ah. The almighty market would drive the racists out of business. Sounds good, doesn't it? Sounds really reasonable, doesn't it?

    The problem with your theory - which I've heard espoused many times before - is that it wouldn't work that way because we have something called the Deep South, where racism is still strong. All it takes is ONE racist business to succeed to start the vicious circle. That business which wouldn't allow blacks attracts enough racists (and there ARE enough racists in the Deep South) to succeed...and what happens? Sooner or later the blacks get ticked off, and open their own blacks-only business. THEN the racist whites point to the blacks doing that, and say, "See? It was the blacks who were racist all along" and so the whites-only business gets more business, and more businesses like that open, and more blacks-only businesses open in retaliation...

    ...and suddenly we're on our way down that vicious circle to a market-enforced Jim Crow era.

    Not only that, but when the blacks decide to come in and sit down at the counter in the whites-only business (just like they did in the Civil Rights struggle), the whites would call the police and say, "We don't allow blacks in our business" and so the police are forced to enforce the law...

    ...and suddenly we have government-enforced racism...and you know as well as I do that this would be all over the media. There would be riots - particularly in the black community - and innocent people would die.

    Is this really where you want America to go?
    All of this might have been true 7 decades ago. While racism may still exist, its not near as rampant as many would like to believe or espouse.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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