View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1021
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    that is not constitutional law.......that is federal law.........federal law does not rule over rights, which are constitutional law.

    federal law is subordinate to constitutional law

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Open to the public does not equal public. Besides, the philosophy holds for both if you are going to be consistent.
    Maybe in your world "open to the public doesn't equal public", but in America, "open to the public" means that ANYONE can walk in there.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I think there are three kinds of people who believe we should repeal parts of the civil rights act and allow businesses to discriminate based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. You've got:

    A. Libertarians who believe that if we give businesses the right to discriminate, that's not only what our founding fathers would want but also everything will work itself out anyway because of free market or supply and demand or freedoms and liberty something.

    B. Racist/sexist/otherwise bigoted people who own a business or wouldn't want to serve black/female/gay people if they did own a business.

    C. People who have no understanding of history or how horrible and racist and bigoted some people are.

    You can't argue with A, because they either understand what they're advocating for and don't care or they don't understand what they're advocating and cannot be told. The ghost of Christmas future would have to visit them and show them what would happen if the civil rights act were repealed for them to understand that anti-discrimination laws are a large part of what is preventing black Americans (among others) from be treated as lesser people and suffering greatly in large portions of the country.

    You can't argue with B, because they want an America where black people are treated as sub-human. Or gay people, or Jewish people, or in rare cases, everybody except themselves.

    You can argue with C, because their opinion is usually not well formed enough to make them immune to developing a cohesive point of view on the subject. It is to this group that I remind them that my ancestor died because of discrimination. The only reputable hospital he could get to for an emergency appendectomy refused to treat him because he was a Jew. He went to the only hospital that would treat Jews and they "accidentally" killed him. I put that in quotations because they killed a lot of people they were trying to save. Just business as usual.

    So many people are mistaken about the effects of discrimination. Multiple posts have referred to the effects of discrimination as being merely "offensive," implying that the only reason we have these laws are so that minorities won't be upset about not being served. No, discrimination would literally destroy lives. So believe whatever you want, but remember that when you argue that we should do away with anti-discrimination laws, you're advocating for a system under which people are allowed to die when they would be saved if they were white, or christian, or straight. Is that a system you'd call just?
    this is what happens when people think they create rights, and can give or abolish them, whenever they choose...........ohhhhhhh! the evils of democratic forms of government

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And you can hide behind legal rhetoric if you want...but legal rhetoric is not what would be driving the tectonic shift in society. Your rhetoric is just like what the racists used when they supported "separate but equal" for schools and access to public places. Sure, the "separate but equal" rhetoric SOUNDED nice...but in REALITY, the 'equality' was anything but equal.
    It's not legal rhetoric. It's simple ethics.

    Nobody has the right to violate the body or property of his neighbor to coerce him to do business against his will. It's unjust. One cannot achieve justice by acting unjustly.

    That's why, despite the fact that I abhor discrimination, I can't justify choosing to initiate aggression in order to prevent it. The initiation of aggression is not the answer. I would choose another way.

  5. #1025
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no!....because your coming to me for something, i am not coming to you wanting something.

    you are the one MAKING THE DEMAND......PLACING THE BURDEN.
    I'm coming to complete a business transaction not anything else. You can hate me all you like.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Even though he may have some sort of justification for doing so,no individual has the right to violate (or threaten to violate) the body or property of his fellow man in order to coerce him into engaging in trade with someone against his will. Saying, "well, I consider your business to be 'open to the public'" makes no difference. No person has the right to initiation such aggression against someone just to force them to trade with someone against their will.
    And the blacks would walk in and demand service, the business owner would call the cops and they would be forced to enforce the law by physically removing the blacks...and reporters would be getting the whole thing on tape and it would be viewed around the world literally in less than a minute.

    And what would happen then? I think you know. How many innocent people would die in the ensuing riots? And is that really where you want America to go?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #1027
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I'm coming to complete a business transaction not anything else. You can hate me all you like.
    well stop making demands on me.....you have no right.

  8. #1028
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I think there are three kinds of people who believe we should repeal parts of the civil rights act and allow businesses to discriminate based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. You've got:

    A. Libertarians who believe that if we give businesses the right to discriminate, that's not only what our founding fathers would want but also everything will work itself out anyway because of free market or supply and demand or freedoms and liberty something.

    B. Racist/sexist/otherwise bigoted people who own a business or wouldn't want to serve black/female/gay people if they did own a business.

    C. People who have no understanding of history or how horrible and racist and bigoted some people are.

    You can't argue with A, because they either understand what they're advocating for and don't care or they don't understand what they're advocating and cannot be told. The ghost of Christmas future would have to visit them and show them what would happen if the civil rights act were repealed for them to understand that anti-discrimination laws are a large part of what is preventing black Americans (among others) from be treated as lesser people and suffering greatly in large portions of the country.

    You can't argue with B, because they want an America where black people are treated as sub-human. Or gay people, or Jewish people, or in rare cases, everybody except themselves.

    You can argue with C, because their opinion is usually not well formed enough to make them immune to developing a cohesive point of view on the subject. It is to this group that I remind them that my ancestor died because of discrimination. The only reputable hospital he could get to for an emergency appendectomy refused to treat him because he was a Jew. He went to the only hospital that would treat Jews and they "accidentally" killed him. I put that in quotations because they killed a lot of people they were trying to save. Just business as usual.

    So many people are mistaken about the effects of discrimination. Multiple posts have referred to the effects of discrimination as being merely "offensive," implying that the only reason we have these laws are so that minorities won't be upset about not being served. No, discrimination would literally destroy lives. So believe whatever you want, but remember that when you argue that we should do away with anti-discrimination laws, you're advocating for a system under which people are allowed to die when they would be saved if they were white, or christian, or straight. Is that a system you'd call just?
    Well said! I have to wonder how many of the people opposing freedom from discrimination actually believe what they say, or if some of them are just trolling...because even given your experience and mine, it's hard to think that in this day and age, nearly one-third of the poll supports "freedom to discriminate".
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #1029
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is not constitutional law.......that is federal law.........federal law does not rule over rights, which are constitutional law.

    federal law is subordinate to constitutional law
    The CRA-1964 is Constitutional.

  10. #1030
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    One cannot achieve justice by acting unjustly.
    have you been watching "how green is my valley?


    "for you cannot achieve justice with injustice, only justice"
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-24-14 at 04:19 PM.

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