View Poll Results: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

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  • Yes (please explain).

    53 86.89%
  • No (please explain).

    6 9.84%
  • Other (please explain).

    2 3.28%
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Thread: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    As long as X is an adult citizen, the first answer to any question "Should X be allowed to vote?" is YES. The second answer, depending on the context of the question, should almost always be either profanity or violence against anyone that answered NO.

    edit: Of course, there is a conflict of interest with public employees' unions. The issue there, is that public employees should not be allowed to unionize in the first place; they can engage in their collective bargaining at the ballot box. It'd be like a private corporation having an "shareholders' union".

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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I view voting as a privilege and not a right, and so I believe conditions ought to be in place to ensure our government is run as effectively as possible.

    I think there ought to be certain education standards that need to be met in order to vote. I think the age limit needs to be raised from 18 to 30. I think one ought to be employed in order to vote.

    However, I would not exclude public employees from voting. Nothing about them being public employees incapacitates them from understanding politics or voting with a sound mind.
    WOW!

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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If a conflict of interest exists at all, I suspect it is most pronounced when a public employee union is involved.

    A hypothetical example:

    Two candidates running for a position in state government.
    One candidate supports additional funding to X state agency.
    The union employees of said agency belong to provides financial and other support to that candidate, and they end up winning.
    They implement their policy, and the state agency in question grows, providing additional job opportunities and pay for it's employees.

    Maybe I'm overthinking things, but I tend to see a slight conflict of interests in that.
    They should be allowed to vote because their interests, in which case may be better funding for whatever deparment they work in, should be represented as much as they can be.

    Also, the principle is at stake. Do you allow for universal voting or not? If you do, then there is no debate to be had because the principle is all important. Everyone who is a citizen gets to vote.

    If not, and you break universal voting to be non-public officials voting where do you draw the line? Public officials, fine, they're the first to go. Then what? How about highschool dropouts because lets face it, they'll never be smart enough to make an informed decision. Fine, get them out of the way too. Then get rid of those who are unemployed because lets face it, they'll only vote for the people who give them more unemployment benefit. Fine, get rid of them too from the electoral process. So one by one you get rid of the easily undesirable groups... then the more not so undesirable but you can still scrap them, like students. Sure, why should students vote? All they'll vote for is whoever promises them goodies. etc.

    Where do you draw the line? Well you draw it when you can't sell the rhetoric anymore.

    No, we either stand on principle or we don't. You don't bend democracy to the whims of one group or another because it hurts all.

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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    WOW!
    We assume that voting is a right, but on what grounds do we make that assumption?

    I'd like to challenge that paradigm a little. Voting rights for all either supposes that all are capable of making equally sound decisions, which is false, or it prioritizes the impact of the results of a given vote to a lesser extent than it prioritizes the simple ideal of allowing everyone to vote, which is foolhardy and poor management.

    Either way, I don't see the net benefit to society at large.
    Last edited by Peter Grimm; 04-22-14 at 03:15 AM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    As long as X is an adult citizen, the first answer to any question "Should X be allowed to vote?" is YES. The second answer, depending on the context of the question, should almost always be either profanity or violence against anyone that answered NO.

    edit: Of course, there is a conflict of interest with public employees' unions. The issue there, is that public employees should not be allowed to unionize in the first place; they can engage in their collective bargaining at the ballot box. It'd be like a private corporation having an "shareholders' union".
    Perhaps I should have asked that question instead.

    Interesting to see what responses this one has generated though.
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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    They should be allowed to vote because their interests, in which case may be better funding for whatever deparment they work in, should be represented as much as they can be.

    Also, the principle is at stake. Do you allow for universal voting or not? If you do, then there is no debate to be had because the principle is all important. Everyone who is a citizen gets to vote.

    If not, and you break universal voting to be non-public officials voting where do you draw the line? Public officials, fine, they're the first to go. Then what? How about highschool dropouts because lets face it, they'll never be smart enough to make an informed decision. Fine, get them out of the way too. Then get rid of those who are unemployed because lets face it, they'll only vote for the people who give them more unemployment benefit. Fine, get rid of them too from the electoral process. So one by one you get rid of the easily undesirable groups... then the more not so undesirable but you can still scrap them, like students. Sure, why should students vote? All they'll vote for is whoever promises them goodies. etc.

    Where do you draw the line? Well you draw it when you can't sell the rhetoric anymore.

    No, we either stand on principle or we don't. You don't bend democracy to the whims of one group or another because it hurts all.
    So if we can't use limits on who can vote to limit the harm groups cause by bending democracy to their whims, what recourse do we have?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #27
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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    No. Government employees are servants not the boss. It is perverted when they start acting like the boss.

    When I was in the Marine Corps I never voted. That is the truth.

    In my county we have 1,200 county employees. The highest vote getter in the Republican Primary got less than 5,000 votes. I bet you that all 1,200 of those county employees are Republicans. Does anybody see how this can be a huge problem?
    I do. Just as those that are on Public Assistance or get EIC in their tax refund shouldn't be able to vote either, because I bet they are all Democrats so they can vote themselves more money.

    See the problem in that logic when taken to the logical conclusion? The problem is both your statement and mine are couched in a lot of truth. However, this is the US, and every citizen has the right to vote. As it should be.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So if we can't use limits on who can vote to limit the harm groups cause by bending democracy to their whims, what recourse do we have?
    You set up a principle that works and you keep with it.
    Universal voting rigths is a good principle. There is no recourse or any reason to change it.

  9. #29
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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If a conflict of interest exists at all, I suspect it is most pronounced when a public employee union is involved.

    A hypothetical example:

    Two candidates running for a position in state government.
    One candidate supports additional funding to X state agency.
    The union employees of said agency belong to provides financial and other support to that candidate, and they end up winning.
    They implement their policy, and the state agency in question grows, providing additional job opportunities and pay for it's employees.

    Maybe I'm overthinking things, but I tend to see a slight conflict of interests in that.
    That sounds exactly like everyone else voting for a candidate that represents their interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    Some people say that anyone receiving government money should not vote. Some people think it is a conflict of interest.
    Clearly people who live in states that receive more tax money than they pay shouldn't vote either. That's the same conflict of interest. That makes sense, right?

    These sorts of issues are almost always Republicans looking for ways to stop Democrats from voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Those arguments always fail, as those supposed subsidies benefit society as a whole, where as subsidies to individuals do not.
    Of course they do. The fewer people who are living in desperate poverty, the better the nation. The more educated the population as a whole, the better the nation. The healthier the population as a whole, the better the nation. Seriously, this is not hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I view voting as a privilege and not a right, and so I believe conditions ought to be in place to ensure our government is run as effectively as possible.

    I think there ought to be certain education standards that need to be met in order to vote. I think the age limit needs to be raised from 18 to 30. I think one ought to be employed in order to vote.

    However, I would not exclude public employees from voting. Nothing about them being public employees incapacitates them from understanding politics or voting with a sound mind.
    The constitution disagrees with you. And how exactly do you justify preventing students and the elderly from voting? Or freelance workers who work for themselves? They're not employed, and one need only declare themselves in business to be in business as a sole proprietor. So, you're disallowing a lot of people from voting and allowing businesses to become gatekeepers of voting. That's actually kind of fascist, and not in line with American ideals at all. The poorest among us need the most representation, not the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    As long as X is an adult citizen, the first answer to any question "Should X be allowed to vote?" is YES. The second answer, depending on the context of the question, should almost always be either profanity or violence against anyone that answered NO.
    Spot on!

    edit: Of course, there is a conflict of interest with public employees' unions. The issue there, is that public employees should not be allowed to unionize in the first place; they can engage in their collective bargaining at the ballot box. It'd be like a private corporation having an "shareholders' union".
    Utter nonsense. Everyone has the right to associate and form an organization to protect their interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So if we can't use limits on who can vote to limit the harm groups cause by bending democracy to their whims, what recourse do we have?
    Outvoting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We assume that voting is a right, but on what grounds do we make that assumption?

    I'd like to challenge that paradigm a little. Voting rights for all either supposes that all are capable of making equally sound decisions, which is false, or it prioritizes the impact of the results of a given vote to a lesser extent than it prioritizes the simple ideal of allowing everyone to vote, which is foolhardy and poor management.

    Either way, I don't see the net benefit to society at large.
    The constitution often makes explicit references to the right to vote.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should public employees be allowed to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Of course they do. The fewer people who are living in desperate poverty, the better the nation. The more educated the population as a whole, the better the nation. The healthier the population as a whole, the better the nation. Seriously, this is not hard.
    Yes this is not hard. So all you are attempting to do is to confound.
    Those supposed subsidies benefit society as a whole, where as subsidies to individuals do not.
    Subsides to individuals benefits the individual far more than it benefits society.

    What you are talking about things that should be earned by the individual, not given to them simply because they are alive.
    Which is where the major difference exists.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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