View Poll Results: Should evidence obtained illegally still be used in a trial?

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  • Yes

    4 9.09%
  • No

    40 90.91%
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Thread: illegal evidence

  1. #51
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    You want to be pissed off look up the Karla Hmolka/Paul Bernardo case.
    Paul Bernardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Ok this isnt about illegal evidence but about horrible plea deals. Karla plead out and testified against Paul to get a lesser sentence. Video tapes were discovered afterwards showing that she was not "forced" into these crimes by Paul but actively partook for her own sick amusement. She is now out of prison though Bernardo never will be.
    FYI this evil woman raped and killed her own sister!
    Personally I think if someone lies in a plea deal the deal should be automatically annuled but apparently that isnt how it works.
    See - it's not a perfect system, but when you start trying to make suggestions, people start screaming that you are trying to toss out the Constitution.
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  2. #52
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    thats not true at all. I am not saying that we should make it ok for illegal searches to be legal and give cops the green light to do what they want. If a cop performs an illegal search he should be punished. Jail time, removal from the force. Something along those lines. However, punishing the victim, other members of society, and the victims family ect by saying that if a cop makes a mistake or breaks the law that crime is ok does not seem like the right thing to do.
    It's not called the thin blue line for nothing The threat that a perp could walk if they don't obey law and procedure is not often enough as it is.
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  3. #53
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I voted NO.
    However I do have a qualification. It is possible for evidence to be declared to be illegal because a good defence lawyer meets a crappy judge. That is wrong.
    I am thinking of a specific incident that happened 5-10 years ago around here. A guys buisness was leggally searched based on an informant using a valid search warrant. They found something like 20 million in illegal stuff (cant remember if stolen or drugs, was a large warehouse). They defence lawyer managed to discredit the informant and the judge ruled that the search warrant was invalid and thus the evidence could not be used. Guy walked away scott free despite being guilty as hell. Mind you he did lose 20 million in merchandise.
    It was a big scandal as it was obvioulsy legal manouevering that got the search warrant declared invalid.

    That kind of crap seems wrong but in general is better make sure the authorities have their ducks all in a row so as to avoid abuse.
    Let me guess what might have happened. The cops got info about this by an illegal method and then coerced someone to give testimony about it and that was caught.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  4. #54
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Lets say I am a police officer and I "know" this guy in my small town is selling drugs. I really want to make the bust but the guy just never screws up. So I bust in the damn door and take his joints and arrest him for marijuana possession.
    Or the cop brings some marijuana with him, just in case his hunch about the guy being a drug dealer is wrong and the guy doesn't have any. He simply plants the evidence.

    I know a couple of people who this has happened to. The cop planted the evidence (crack cocaine) in their cars. This is one of the reasons you should never consent to a search.

  5. #55
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Reading another thread on here prompted this question.

    Should evidence obtained illegally still be used in a trial?

    A few things to note. I know what the law currently is so stating that the law is that it is illegal doesn't answer the question. I am asking if you personally think that evidence should be used in the trial.

    For instance if a man is killing someone and video tapes the whole thing. Cops search his house illegally and find the tape. Or anything along those lines. The cops illegal behavior doesn't change that the man committed the crime. So why should it be a factor? Doesn't the victim still deserve justice? Why not keep the evidence, since it is evidence, and instead of allowing a guilty man walk to kill again, instead punish the cop?
    First of all, your hypothetical scenario is an absurdity. What evidence did the cops have which led them to believe the video tape of the murder was in the house? Why wouldn't they just use that evidence to obtain a search warrant in the first place?

    Such absurd hypothetical scenarios are not a good reason to burn the Bill of Rights.

  6. #56
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Cops shouldn't be searching your house unless they have a warrant. Why exactly should there be any incentive to act illegally by law enforcement?
    Yep, only exception is an open violation. If an officer shows up to serve a noise complaint an you have another crime in plain view then that would be the only exception to the rule.

    EDIT - Plain view, the noise complaint example was one of many.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  7. #57
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That's exactly the kind of logic that leads down the path to a police state. For every guilty individual, thousands rights will be violated.
    "If" officers were allowed to routinely spot check homes they would probably nab thousands of criminals a year, if not more. The chilling aspect of something like that is the death of multiple rights in that process.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #58
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Oh yeah, some people go to their own grave really twisted, but they're mentally sick and actually pitiful. Ever heard Manson talk in an interview, he's bonkers and it's really miserable to exist that way. It's difficult not to really want to hate but it's a toxic emotion to hold onto indefinitely.

    I remember telling my father that the world was horrible and a scary place, full of monsters, and he said "that's out there, you live in here where it's safe."
    Yes, Manson is bonkers. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that the prosecutor in that case was even more bonkers. He came up with a pretty damned bizarre theory for a motive in those murders.

  9. #59
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Yes, Manson is bonkers. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that the prosecutor in that case was even more bonkers. He came up with a pretty damned bizarre theory for a motive in those murders.
    And though some people who're bonkers are mean, contemptible and twisted, it doesn't mean you have to like them, simply realize they're not of a right mind. It does my own humanity no good to wish untoward harm upon any soul, regardless of how bad they appear. If punishment benefits them and society in the form of correction, then it's a positive thing, though it may seem cruel. But to just hurt someone for the blood thirsty desire for revenge is not justice or any better than them.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #60
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Reading another thread on here prompted this question.

    Should evidence obtained illegally still be used in a trial?

    A few things to note. I know what the law currently is so stating that the law is that it is illegal doesn't answer the question. I am asking if you personally think that evidence should be used in the trial.

    For instance if a man is killing someone and video tapes the whole thing. Cops search his house illegally and find the tape. Or anything along those lines. The cops illegal behavior doesn't change that the man committed the crime. So why should it be a factor? Doesn't the victim still deserve justice? Why not keep the evidence, since it is evidence, and instead of allowing a guilty man walk to kill again, instead punish the cop?
    I should think that the last thing we need is to motivate the state to do illegal things.

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