View Poll Results: Should evidence obtained illegally still be used in a trial?

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  • Yes

    4 9.09%
  • No

    40 90.91%
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Thread: illegal evidence

  1. #41
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Lets say I am a police officer and I "know" this guy in my small town is selling drugs. I really want to make the bust but the guy just never screws up. So I bust in the damn door and take his joints and arrest him for marijuana possession. Now the just gets all PO'd at me, but what, exactly, can he charge me with? I did not steal the pot, illegal search and seizure? Breaking and entering? what if hte door was unlocked or the LEO dressed up as a pizza guy and was let in. I think allowing illegally gained evidence in court would do far more harm in the long run.

    Don't kid yourself....cops fabricate police reports all the time. When they can't bust the guy....they arrest him and then write a police report saying that they saw him engage in a hand to hand sale.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  2. #42
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I voted NO.
    However I do have a qualification. It is possible for evidence to be declared to be illegal because a good defence lawyer meets a crappy judge. That is wrong.
    I am thinking of a specific incident that happened 5-10 years ago around here. A guys buisness was leggally searched based on an informant using a valid search warrant. They found something like 20 million in illegal stuff (cant remember if stolen or drugs, was a large warehouse). They defence lawyer managed to discredit the informant and the judge ruled that the search warrant was invalid and thus the evidence could not be used. Guy walked away scott free despite being guilty as hell. Mind you he did lose 20 million in merchandise.
    It was a big scandal as it was obvioulsy legal manouevering that got the search warrant declared invalid.

    That kind of crap seems wrong but in general is better make sure the authorities have their ducks all in a row so as to avoid abuse.
    There had to be more going on than that...because there is a "good faith" exception to the exclusionary rule...in other words, if cops reasonably rely on an invalid warrant, the evidence is not excluded because the idea behind the exclusionary rule is to dissuade purposeful illegal and unlawful searches. If the cops relied on an informant that turned out to be unreliable, the good faith exception to the exclusionary rule would apply. I suspect that it probably had to do with the cops manufacturing the informant and otherwise doctoring evidence in order to "justify" an otherwise illegal search.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #43
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    You are exactly right, Grip, but you know how some people get. "OMG let's get rid of the Constitution!!11!!"


    I knew what you meant, people want to take what you say out of context for some reason to make a point?

    I've seen TV shows where the judge throws out evidence of a murder that would convict, because of the poisonous tree rule, and come out of my chair cursing. It's something that there's not a good exception for because of the principle of rights violations and innocence presumption.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  4. #44
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I knew what you meant, people want to take what you say out of context for some reason to make a point?

    I've seen TV shows where the judge throws out evidence of a murder that would convict, because of the poisonous tree rule, and come out of my chair cursing. It's something that there's not a good exception for because of the principle of rights violations and innocence presumption.
    There was evidence in the Casey Anthony trial that could not be used, that a lot of legal analysts said would have put her in the chair had it been allowed. That is what pisses me off - that an obviously guilty person walked because not all of the evidence was admissible.
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  5. #45
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    There was evidence in the Casey Anthony trial that could not be used, that a lot of legal analysts said would have put her in the chair had it been allowed. That is what pisses me off - that an obviously guilty person walked because not all of the evidence was admissible.
    People often do pay in one way or the other. You damage your own soul more when you commit crimes, than to the victims. Look at OJ, who's thuggish actions eventually landed him in jail for a long time. His health is bad and he's probably miserable. Most criminals are just people who've made bad choices and severe mistakes, not necessarily monsters.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #46
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    People often do pay in one way or the other. You damage your own soul more when you commit crimes, than to the victims. Look at OJ, who's thuggish actions eventually landed him in jail for a long time. His health is bad and he's probably miserable. Most criminals are just people who've made bad choices and severe mistakes, not necessarily monsters.
    Sorry - I will go to my grave believing that Casey Anthony is a monster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky
    It's easy to be a Conservative, until you need help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    After years of condemning Bill Clinton for being a rapist, Republicans apparently changed their minds about the whole thing and elected one of their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen
    Fox News knows their audience. Nuance and facts aren't why they tune in.

  7. #47
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There had to be more going on than that...because there is a "good faith" exception to the exclusionary rule...in other words, if cops reasonably rely on an invalid warrant, the evidence is not excluded because the idea behind the exclusionary rule is to dissuade purposeful illegal and unlawful searches. If the cops relied on an informant that turned out to be unreliable, the good faith exception to the exclusionary rule would apply. I suspect that it probably had to do with the cops manufacturing the informant and otherwise doctoring evidence in order to "justify" an otherwise illegal search.
    Not according to the news reports, though I admit they do get stuff wrong.
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  8. #48
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Sorry - I will go to my grave believing that Casey Anthony is a monster.

    Oh yeah, some people go to their own grave really twisted, but they're mentally sick and actually pitiful. Ever heard Manson talk in an interview, he's bonkers and it's really miserable to exist that way. It's difficult not to really want to hate but it's a toxic emotion to hold onto indefinitely.

    I remember telling my father that the world was horrible and a scary place, full of monsters, and he said "that's out there, you live in here where it's safe."
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  9. #49
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    Re: illegal evidence

    History, and situations in other nations, show that admitting illegally obtained evidence into a trial is likely to encourage more illegal searches and torture of witnesses and suspects and less privacy and freedom for everyone. The Supreme Court has already created too many exceptions to the fourth amendment.

  10. #50
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    There was evidence in the Casey Anthony trial that could not be used, that a lot of legal analysts said would have put her in the chair had it been allowed. That is what pisses me off - that an obviously guilty person walked because not all of the evidence was admissible.
    You want to be pissed off look up the Karla Hmolka/Paul Bernardo case.
    Paul Bernardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Ok this isnt about illegal evidence but about horrible plea deals. Karla plead out and testified against Paul to get a lesser sentence. Video tapes were discovered afterwards showing that she was not "forced" into these crimes by Paul but actively partook for her own sick amusement. She is now out of prison though Bernardo never will be.
    FYI this evil woman raped and killed her own sister!
    Personally I think if someone lies in a plea deal the deal should be automatically annuled but apparently that isnt how it works.
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