View Poll Results: Should evidence obtained illegally still be used in a trial?

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  • Yes

    4 9.09%
  • No

    40 90.91%
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Thread: illegal evidence

  1. #11
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    If the police know they wont be able to use the evidence they will not be tempted.
    I agree with this, because the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is intended to deter police from using illegal means to obtain evidence.

    The doctrine is subject to four main exceptions. The tainted evidence is admissible if:

    it was discovered in part as a result of an independent, untainted source; or
    it would inevitably have been discovered despite the tainted source; or
    the chain of causation between the illegal action and the tainted evidence is too attenuated; or
    the search warrant was not found to be valid based on probable cause, but was executed by government agents in good faith (called the good-faith exception).
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #12
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, it shouldn't.

    If you allow evidence obtained illegally to be used in trial than you incentivize illegal collection of evidence in situations where it would be difficult to legally obtain said evidence otherwise. You also incentivize law enforcement to illegally attempt to gain evidence in situations where there it may not even exist, and so your rights are trampled upon for no good reason.

    Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A cop ignoring the law to get evidence does so only based on an assumption of guilt.
    yes the cop is wrong. I'm not arguing that. But there are other ways to discourage cops from doing it. Let the cops do time for breaking the law, be removed from the force. But one person breaking the law doesn't negate or excuse someone else breaking it.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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  3. #13
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    yes the cop is wrong. I'm not arguing that. But there are other ways to discourage cops from doing it. Let the cops do time for breaking the law, be removed from the force. But one person breaking the law doesn't negate or excuse someone else breaking it.
    But until convicted, there is no legal determination that someone has broken the law in the first place. You are advocating that criminally procured evidence be used to convict someone who is not yet guilty of anything, because you they might be.

    The point of the fourth amendment isn't to punish police. Though they should be punished for violating it. The point is to protect people from the government invading their homes, persons, and property without public oversight. They cannot get into your business without probable cause. It's protecting your business in the first place, not punishing them but still getting into your business as much as they like.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  4. #14
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    I vote yes. Evidence is evidence. As long as it's not manufactured evidence, and it still proves the guilt (or innocence) of the person, so it should be able to be used.
    That's exactly the kind of logic that leads down the path to a police state. For every guilty individual, thousands rights will be violated.

  5. #15
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    Re: illegal evidence

    I dont know if this will make sense or not, but the way I think about it is... criminals rights are not important at all. Not even a little bit for the criminal, but they are of utmost importance to the rest of us. I dont think rights are meant to protect criminals but to protect the rest of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That's exactly the kind of logic that leads down the path to a police state. For every guilty individual, thousands rights will be violated.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

  6. #16
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    yes the cop is wrong. I'm not arguing that. But there are other ways to discourage cops from doing it. Let the cops do time for breaking the law, be removed from the force. But one person breaking the law doesn't negate or excuse someone else breaking it.
    I think once you called into question the credibility of the cop who obtained the evidence the validity of the evidence itself - not just how it was obtained but whether it's legitimate evidence - has to be questioned as well. If the cop was willing to illegally obtain it did he also perhaps plant it as well? If we're going to toss someone in jail the evidence has to be above reproach.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That's exactly the kind of logic that leads down the path to a police state. For every guilty individual, thousands rights will be violated.
    That's what I was thinking. People okay with this have strong Orwellian tendencies. Not only does this fly in the face of the Fourth Amendment, but what if a shoddy tip or some cop's "hunch" turns up nothing after destroying the privacy of an innocent person?

    There are so many slippery slopes that the statists are casually willing to slide down.

  8. #18
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Im not saying they should be. The cop searching the persons house is wrong, and that cop should be punished, whatever the sentencing for B&E is possibly. But that doesn't change the person's guilt. They should still be accountable for what they've done.
    This is an argument over if the ends justify the means.

    Yes...everybody wants someone to pay for committing a crime.

    In the grand scheme of things...we don't want cops banging down our doors without the sufficient requirements to get a warrant. That should never be acceptable and cops and everyone else knows they gain absolutely nothing by doing it.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  9. #19
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    Re: illegal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    yes the cop is wrong. I'm not arguing that. But there are other ways to discourage cops from doing it. Let the cops do time for breaking the law, be removed from the force. But one person breaking the law doesn't negate or excuse someone else breaking it.
    But ultimately, even if you DID find some other ways to strongly deter it...it comes down to the fact that a person is still having an illegal search and siezure done against them and is being penalized due to that illegal search and siezure.

    It'd be like saying that it should be illegal for the police to take someone's firearm, but that the firearms should still remain confiscated.

    or it'd be like saying it should be illegal for the government can ban you from writing a book on your political views, but the ban still would stay in place.

    If you're constitutionally protected from illegal search and seizure, then it'd be unreasonable to allow the fruits of that illegal search and seizure to be used against you.

  10. #20
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    Re: illegal evidence

    I'm not sure many District Attorneys would want to use illegally obtained evidence anyway.

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