View Poll Results: Homeschooling

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I homeschool

    6 8.22%
  • No, I don't homeschool

    24 32.88%
  • Yes, it's a viable option

    49 67.12%
  • No, it's a dumb idea

    15 20.55%
  • I don't care

    7 9.59%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 15232425
Results 241 to 249 of 249

Thread: Homeschooling[W:199]

  1. #241
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,513
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yours was not my observation as a student in the 50's and 60's
    the absence of such 'cohesion' was due to the black kids being required to receive inferior teaching in an inferior facility
    that's where the bank president's janitor's kids were taught
    multiculturalism is one of the things that makes our nation great. it is hardly a cancer. we need more of it
    The fact is though, that back in the 40's and 50's during the time that segregation was the norm, the black kids really weren't getting an inferior education. Thomas Sowell has written extensively about this. He was educated in inner city New York and has gone back to thoroughly research and evaluate the education in his all black school compared to the nearby all white school. He said in different years the 'white' school turned in a slightly better performance than the 'black' school when the next year the 'black' school would be on top. But it was obvious that the kids in both were receiving comparable educations. He himself received an education sufficient to allow him to compete with anybody anywhere.

    He went on to do extensive research and has written much on the subject. One excerpt:

    . . . .While there are examples of schools where this happens in our own time-- both public and private, secular and religious-- we can also go back nearly a hundred years and find the same phenomenon. Back in 1899, in Washington, D. C., there were four academic public high schools-- one black and three white.1 In standardized tests given that year, students in the black high school averaged higher test scores than students in two of the three white high schools.

    This was not a fluke. It so happens that I have followed 85 years of the history of this black high school-- from 1870 to 1955 --and found it repeatedly equaling or exceeding national norms on standardized tests. In the 1890s, it was called The M Street School and after 1916 it was renamed Dunbar High School but its academic performances on standardized tests remained good on into the mid-1950s. . . .
    Thomas Sowell - "The Education of Minority Children"

    Further Sowell and others have meticulously documented how black people were the most rapidly advancing demographic in the country, academically, financially, professionally, right up to the time of the Great Society initiatives. Paraphrasing his extensive remarks on the subject: It was only after sometimes brutally enforced desegregation and the government's declaration of black people, and the government's declaration of black people as 'disadvantaged', etc. that such progress stalled and in many cases began to reverse itself.

    And now we have one-size-fits-all schools that are managing to adequately educate only a select few who are the exceptions rather than the rule. We can do better. Homeschooling is sometimes the ONLY viable option for parents who care that their children receive the best education available.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #242
    Professor
    Leo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 02:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,674

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    If you believe that you, as a voter, have the right to exert your opinion on how I, a parent, educate my child, then doesn't this privilege also come with a responsibility? Can the parents send you a bill for a portion of their home, a portion of their food budget, a portion of their clothing expenses, and for all of the other costs that they incur in raising their children?
    Actually there is a bit of a strawman involved in your response. I am not trying to exert my opinion upon you via the ballot box (amongst other factors, I have never voted - I was not old enough until last year) but rather discussing a topic put up for that purpose. I do not live in the US (and have no intention of so doing), so the likelihood of my opinions (political or otherwise) affecting you is fairly remote.

    My viewpoint is that children do not ask to be born, and that parents (for a variety of reasons) choose to have children. Having made this choice, they owe their children the responsibility of caring and providing for them as best they can, but the children do not owe their parents anything, and they are not the property of their parents.

    I also happen to consider that the vast majority of parents discharge their duties admirably, and love their children as extensions of themselves - which is as evolving nature has intended. I was brought up in a single parent family (my dad died when i was little) and I am sure my mum has made many sacrifices on my behalf (for which I love her) but while reasonably well educated (one Baccalaureate and one Masters), she is not academically capable of the cumulative effect of the many highly qualified educators at the school I attended, or at the university at which I am currently reading. This is not a comment to her detriment, it a statement of fact, supported by logic and reason - knowledgeable though she is in her chosen disciplines, she cannot match the combined knowledge of the many educators to whom I am subjected.

    In addition to which, were I educated by her alone, I would be more subject to the beliefs and prejudices which she, like ever other human being, entertains. I would emerge less well socialised, with a much lesser exposure to philosophies different from hers. I do not believe that would have been acting in my best interests. And this is leaving aside any religious influences.

    And in closing, the fact that children are not your property to do with as you choose, does not validate the view that someone else, the state in particular, enjoys that right. No one does - the guiding principle at all times must be the rights and welfare of the child. I am aware that this viewpoint may be found offensive by the old guard of parents whose guiding principles may owe more to the Old Testament than the Convention on the Rights of the Child (a convention which only Somalia and the USA refuse to ratify), but that sort of 'traditional' thinking has never engendered progress, or justice, of any kind.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  3. #243
    Professor
    Leo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 02:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,674

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Or is it possible that most parents who homeschool do so to allow their children the best possible education and solid grounding in all core subject matter? To allow their children to learn and educate themselves separated from the intense social indoctrination that is so often the case in the public schools? To provide an education customized for their child's benefit rather than a one-size-fits-all cookie cutter process that is dumbed down to accommodate the slowest students and that discourages independent and creative thought? To allow their child the ability to be the best he or she can be and not handicapped by a public school system that is one of the poorest among developed nations?
    Not only is it possible, but I am sure that most parents who choose to home school their children have those laudable aims in mind. What I am questioning is several assumptions - one of which is that the parents concerned are capable of personally providing their children the best possible education. Another is that all public schooling is deficient, or to use your words 'dumbed down to accommodate the slowest students'. To which I may easily respond that some schools are more capable than others, and the same applies to parents - except that few parents can muster the academic resources that a half-way-competent school cumulatively can.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And the quotation you presented as your point of view, i.e.: "We are not the property of our parents to indoctrinate as they wish." That send a chill through my very bones. Once we remove the child from the authority of the parent, the child becomes the property of the state to indoctrinate as it wishes. That to me is a far more dangerous and unacceptable scenario.
    It was not a quotation when I presented it - but rather a point of view. I find the phrase 'the authority of the parent' as chilling as you apparently find the concept of the rights of the child. The alternative to parental dictatorship and manipulation is not that of the state, or any other body. The most desirable alternative is the over-riding principle of the needs, rights, and wishes of the child. The role of the state, or more correctly - the legal system, in these matters is one of regulation to that end - not an alternative dictatorship to parental tyranny.

    Remember that your child did not ask to be born, and a parent's responsibilities are incomparably greater than any imagined (and often Biblical) parental rights.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  4. #244
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    but while reasonably well educated (one Baccalaureate and one Masters), she is not academically capable of the cumulative effect of the many highly qualified educators at the school I attended
    Giving an illiterate man access to the Library of Congress doesn't expose him to the wealth of information contained within millions of books. Exposing a young student to a gifted mathematician doesn't make the student's task of learning his multiplication tables proceed any easier than if the student's mother, who is fairly intelligent, teaches the child. I see this play out quite frequently at the university level - a gifted professor quite often has difficulty in teaching elementary knowledge in a manner which introductory-level students can fully grasp whereas some lowly TA attached to the class has better outcomes when explaining the same material.

    Where expertise is crucial is in areas where nuances are instrumental and for most topics covered in public schools, nuance is not needed. Nuanced thinking develops upon a foundation of knowledge, it doesn't serve very well when it's used to construct the foundation.

    In addition to which, were I educated by her alone, I would be more subject to the beliefs and prejudices which she, like ever other human being, entertains. I would emerge less well socialised, with a much lesser exposure to philosophies different from hers. I do not believe that would have been acting in my best interests. And this is leaving aside any religious influences.
    You have an entire lifetime ahead of you in which you can strike out on your own path and be influenced by the ideas of others. When you're young you're not really in a position to discern what is in your best interests. Of the people in your life who are best suited to determine what is in your best interests, your parents are at the top of the list. Exposing children to the cliched ideas favored by liberals likely doesn't do young children any favors. Some parents are supportive of that exposure and they know what is best for their own children. Other parents seek to avoid vacuous ideologies and seek to expose their children to a more enriched world of thought. Your position that exposing a young child to a panoply of ideas is a universal good is merely a normative position.

    And in closing, the fact that children are not your property to do with as you choose, does not validate the view that someone else, the state in particular, enjoys that right. No one does - the guiding principle at all times must be the rights and welfare of the child. I am aware that this viewpoint may be found offensive by the old guard of parents whose guiding principles may owe more to the Old Testament than the Convention on the Rights of the Child (a convention which only Somalia and the USA refuse to ratify), but that sort of 'traditional' thinking has never engendered progress, or justice, of any kind.
    My, you certainly are a close-minded fellow who seems to be in love with the righteousness of your own position. So much for diversity.

  5. #245
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,513
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Not only is it possible, but I am sure that most parents who choose to home school their children have those laudable aims in mind. What I am questioning is several assumptions - one of which is that the parents concerned are capable of personally providing their children the best possible education. Another is that all public schooling is deficient, or to use your words 'dumbed down to accommodate the slowest students'. To which I may easily respond that some schools are more capable than others, and the same applies to parents - except that few parents can muster the academic resources that a half-way-competent school cumulatively can.

    It was not a quotation when I presented it - but rather a point of view. I find the phrase 'the authority of the parent' as chilling as you apparently find the concept of the rights of the child. The alternative to parental dictatorship and manipulation is not that of the state, or any other body. The most desirable alternative is the over-riding principle of the needs, rights, and wishes of the child. The role of the state, or more correctly - the legal system, in these matters is one of regulation to that end - not an alternative dictatorship to parental tyranny.

    Remember that your child did not ask to be born, and a parent's responsibilities are incomparably greater than any imagined (and often Biblical) parental rights.
    I am seeing parents with no better than a high school education do an exemplary job of taking their children through the requisite curriculum with a whole lot of time left over for the child to explore those areas his heart is most drawn to. As previously posted, I am personally watching hundreds of homeschooled kids from kindergarten through high school learn, blossom, and excel on their college entrance exams. The statistics overall, across the entire country, are showing that the homeschooled kids are far surpassing their public school peers.

    That there may be exceptions in both cases does not diminish the overall success.

    And if you think the state and legal system are better suited to direct the education of children than are parents, for god sake never run for public office, never agree to go on a school board, and please stay as far away from the children as possible.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #246
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,132

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I am seeing parents with no better than a high school education do an exemplary job of taking their children through the requisite curriculum with a whole lot of time left over for the child to explore those areas his heart is most drawn to. As previously posted, I am personally watching hundreds of homeschooled kids from kindergarten through high school learn, blossom, and excel on their college entrance exams. The statistics overall, across the entire country, are showing that the homeschooled kids are far surpassing their public school peers.

    That there may be exceptions in both cases does not diminish the overall success.

    And if you think the state and legal system are better suited to direct the education of children than are parents, for god sake never run for public office, never agree to go on a school board, and please stay as far away from the children as possible.
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    would you please offer a cite for your stats
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #247
    Professor
    Leo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 02:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,674

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Giving an illiterate man access to the Library of Congress doesn't expose him to the wealth of information contained within millions of books. Exposing a young student to a gifted mathematician doesn't make the student's task of learning his multiplication tables proceed any easier than if the student's mother, who is fairly intelligent, teaches the child. I see this play out quite frequently at the university level - a gifted professor quite often has difficulty in teaching elementary knowledge in a manner which introductory-level students can fully grasp whereas some lowly TA attached to the class has better outcomes when explaining the same material.
    All of which may be so, but also makes assumptions unwarranted in the course of this discussion. We cannot take into account individual capabilities when discussing a generic concept, but more importantly, none of that addressed the simple point I was making. That being, all other things being equal, many highly qualified teachers are likely to be more effective than one moderately qualified parent.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Where expertise is crucial is in areas where nuances are instrumental and for most topics covered in public schools, nuance is not needed. Nuanced thinking develops upon a foundation of knowledge, it doesn't serve very well when it's used to construct the foundation.
    To quote- "I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me." So I am not sure quite what point you are making. You appear to be saying that it is preferable for children to be given only basic information - if so, I cannot entirely agree. Much is dependent upon the child's stage of development.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You have an entire lifetime ahead of you in which you can strike out on your own path and be influenced by the ideas of others.
    LOL, apart from the fact that your claim is technically incorrect - at 19, I have already used up one quarter of my allotted life-span - the Jesuits have a saying that goes something like "Give me the boy until the age of six, and I will give you the man." You are much too intelligent for any need to explain the implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    When you're young you're not really in a position to discern what is in your best interests. Of the people in your life who are best suited to determine what is in your best interests, your parents are at the top of the list. Exposing children to the cliched ideas favored by liberals likely doesn't do young children any favors. Some parents are supportive of that exposure and they know what is best for their own children. Other parents seek to avoid vacuous ideologies and seek to expose their children to a more enriched world of thought. Your position that exposing a young child to a panoply of ideas is a universal good is merely a normative position.
    Again, too many assumptions for us to discuss this objectively. Might I just mention that the school I attended is 700 years old, and so much a part of the British Establishment it practically defines conservatism. So much for 'the cliched ideas favored by liberals'.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    My, you certainly are a close-minded fellow who seems to be in love with the righteousness of your own position. So much for diversity.
    What a pity you decided to descend into the realms of personal criticism - I had other expectations.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  8. #248
    Professor
    Leo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 02:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,674

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    would you please offer a cite for your stats
    May I second that request?
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  9. #249
    Professor
    Leo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 02:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,674

    Re: Homeschooling

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I am seeing parents with no better than a high school education do an exemplary job of taking their children through the requisite curriculum with a whole lot of time left over for the child to explore those areas his heart is most drawn to. As previously posted, I am personally watching hundreds of homeschooled kids from kindergarten through high school learn, blossom, and excel on their college entrance exams. The statistics overall, across the entire country, are showing that the homeschooled kids are far surpassing their public school peers.

    That there may be exceptions in both cases does not diminish the overall success.
    While I accept your assertions, it would be nice to see independent and objective verification. Homeschooling is a rare occurrence in most of Europe, but the best academic results at sixth form and university level in the UK are generally obtained by people who attended the Greater Public Schools (Eton, Harrow, Rugby, Winchester, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And if you think the state and legal system are better suited to direct the education of children than are parents, for god sake never run for public office, never agree to go on a school board, and please stay as far away from the children as possible.
    Well, I do happen to think that independent and suitably qualified authorities are better suited to directing the education of children than many individual parents. But let not your heart be troubled, I am reading for a double degree in Laws, Jurisprudence, and International Affairs. I intend going on to at least a Masters in Laws and Jurisprudence, and, and if possible, taking silk at one of the Inns of Court. I am not likely to run for public office, nor have much to do with any children other than my own.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 15232425

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •