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Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

Do The Rich Pay Too Much Income Taxes

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TurtleDude said:
Fair enough

I will let you in on something

I almost never ask questions like this that I don't already know the answer to
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Did they write checks to a different government agency in 1935 for the Social Security withholdings?

I once had a conversation with an older gentleman that said that your Social Security Number was a bank account. The government kept records of how much money was in your account. It sounded like it used to be a lot like an IRA or 401(k).

Social Security is not a trust fund and anybody who believes that is living in the past and believing a lie told by a desperate politician from a brutal era who has been dead for almost 70 years.

He had to tell lies to calm everybody down and he was damn good at it.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Did they write checks to a different government agency in 1935 for the Social Security withholdings?

I once had a conversation with an older gentleman that said that your Social Security Number was a bank account. The government kept records of how much money was in your account. It sounded like it used to be a lot like an IRA or 401(k).

Social Security is not a trust fund and anybody who believes that is living in the past and believing a lie told by a desperate politician from a brutal era who has been dead for almost 70 years.

He had to tell lies to calm everybody down and he was damn good at it.
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social security is a ponzi scheme and the promises that were made to get that crap passed not only broken years ago but no one even says them with a straight face

I don't recall people themselves writing checks-rather its the employer. I have never written a check to the SS-its always been deducted from my paycheck
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Really? O5, you're forgetting something - I used to be a (moderately) racist and strong conservative. I grew up and lived in what is today the base of the Republican party. I'm sorry, but no one here knows both sides of the story like I do. Please do not take offense, but you telling me that the liberals are the ones who are dividing this nation along racial lines only evinces your ignorance of the matter. You really do not have a deep understanding of the matter.

I'm not surprised you didn't take me up on that challenge - I've made the same challenge to conservatives quite a few times before. Only one has ever taken me up on the challenge...and he of course lost - not that he admitted his loss, of course, but he lost nonetheless. But you're intelligent enough to know that when I say I can show so many more examples of race-baiting and racism by the right than you can of the left, I'm making no idle boast.

And no, the word "illegal" need not be included in front of "immigrants". Get to know someone who came here as a nonwhite immigrant sometime and ask them if they experience racism even though they've been American citizens for many years. Got an example for you - a couple months ago, a state inspector came to our Adult Family Home to investigate a matter. She looked at my sister-in-law and asked, "Does she have her green card?" It never occurred to her that my sister-in-law might be a citizen...and she has been for over twenty years. Would that state inspector have made the same assumption if my sister-in-law had been white? I think you know the answer to that one.
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LOL.

Nothing but platitudes and liberal/progressive memes.

Thank you for you opinions. They met my expectations precisely.

:peace
 
ocean515 said:
LOL.

Nothing but platitudes and liberal/progressive memes.

Thank you for you opinions. They met my expectations precisely.

:peace
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Ah. He complains about how liberals point out endemic racism...and then when I remind him in so many words that he hasn't walked a mile in the other side's moccasins, he dismisses it as 'platitudes' and 'memes'.

I really expected better of you.
 
And I might add to the Other countries which all have the higher/Highest rates:.. than us. (and the Nonsensical previous objections to my #506)
What are the Effective results OF those rates?

GINI index
"Gini index measures the extent to which the distribution of income or consumption expenditure among individuals or households within an economy deviates from a perfectly equal distribution.".
[......]
Thus a Gini index of 0 represents perfect equality, while an index of 100 implies perfect inequality.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI​


The Lowest numbers on the left are the countries with the most equal income distributions: the right side of course, the opposite.
http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2013/06/2062013-some-facts-about-income.html

Screen+Shot+2013-06-20+at+12.59.08.png
 
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using objective standards-the rich pay too much income tax

if a group of 1% of the population pays more than 1% of the income taxes that is an objective argument they are paying too much

if a group makes 22% of the income but pays 40% of the income tax-that is also objective evidence they are paying too much

there is no objective argument that the rich are paying too little income tax
 
TurtleDude said:
using objective standards-the rich pay too much income tax

if a group of 1% of the population pays more than 1% of the income taxes that is an objective argument they are paying too much

if a group makes 22% of the income but pays 40% of the income tax-that is also objective evidence they are paying too much

there is no objective argument that the rich are paying too little income tax
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You make it seem like the wealthiest should not be taxed what they are worth under our form of Capitalism.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Ah. He complains about how liberals point out endemic racism...and then when I remind him in so many words that he hasn't walked a mile in the other side's moccasins, he dismisses it as 'platitudes' and 'memes'.

I really expected better of you.
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What you expected has zero impact on me.

I just chose to avoid the racist game Progressives depend on.

Perhaps the idea behind "content of character" will mean something to members of your cause one day. It's obvious you're not there yet.
 
danielpalos said:
You make it seem like the wealthiest should not be taxed what they are worth under our form of Capitalism.
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They should be taxed equally with everyone else. Nobody in this country should get away without paying their fair share. Nobody in this country should pay more than their fair share. If you want more money, get off your ass and get a job, or a better job, and earn more money.
 
Cephus said:
They should be taxed equally with everyone else. Nobody in this country should get away without paying their fair share. Nobody in this country should pay more than their fair share. If you want more money, get off your ass and get a job, or a better job, and earn more money.
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Why should they be taxed equally, under our form of Capitalism? Equality is a Social concept that requires Socialism.
 
ocean515 said:
What you expected has zero impact on me.

I just chose to avoid the racist game Progressives depend on.

Perhaps the idea behind "content of character" will mean something to members of your cause one day. It's obvious you're not there yet.
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Ah - since you quoted MLK, well, that OBVIOUSLY means that the Right is without spot and stain...lily-white, as it were.

Speaking of MLK, he had something to say about Goldwater at the time, when Goldwater was espousing quasi-libertarian policies and making claims that would truly seem right at home among today's Tea Party (see the reference). Here's what MLK said about Goldwater:

“While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulates a philosophy which gives aid and comfort to the racists.”

'Tween thee and me, O5, one of us knows where of one speaks when it comes to racism, having been there and done that on multiple sides of the same two-sided coin...

...and it ain't you.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Ah - since you quoted MLK, well, that OBVIOUSLY means that the Right is without spot and stain...lily-white, as it were.

Speaking of MLK, he had something to say about Goldwater at the time, when Goldwater was espousing quasi-libertarian policies and making claims that would truly seem right at home among today's Tea Party (see the reference). Here's what MLK said about Goldwater:

“While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulates a philosophy which gives aid and comfort to the racists.”

'Tween thee and me, O5, one of us knows where of one speaks when it comes to racism, having been there and done that on multiple sides of the same two-sided coin...

...and it ain't you.
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Every philosophy on the planet can be twisted to provide aid and comfort to racists. Nietzsche bore no responsibility for Hitler.:peace
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Ah - since you quoted MLK, well, that OBVIOUSLY means that the Right is without spot and stain...lily-white, as it were.

Speaking of MLK, he had something to say about Goldwater at the time, when Goldwater was espousing quasi-libertarian policies and making claims that would truly seem right at home among today's Tea Party (see the reference). Here's what MLK said about Goldwater:

“While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulates a philosophy which gives aid and comfort to the racists.”

'Tween thee and me, O5, one of us knows where of one speaks when it comes to racism, having been there and done that on multiple sides of the same two-sided coin...

...and it ain't you.
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LOL.

Projecting as usual.

One big difference 'tween thee and me. I rejected any form of racism from the very beginning.

You didn't.

Chew on that as you picture yourself judge and jury.
 
One major reform we could make in the area of taxes is to get rid of the special inheritance or what some on the right like to call "death taxes". Abolish that distinction and get rid of the laws on it. Simply consider all new money going into a persons pocket according to the same tax schedule regardless of its source.

Do that and suddenly you achieve a bit more economic fairness.
 
Jack Hays said:
Every philosophy on the planet can be twisted to provide aid and comfort to racists. Nietzsche bore no responsibility for Hitler.:peace
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Neither did Martin Luther, though the influence and effect his rabid anti-semitism had on majority-Lutheran Germany in the 1930's would be hard to overstate.

What MLK was getting at is that legally allowing people to discriminate - in the eyes of racists - gives legitimacy to their actions, just as the words of Nietzsche and Martin Luther gave legitimacy to the anti-semites of 1930's Germany.

You have to ask yourself which is more important - to protect someone's "right" to discriminate against others, or to protect someone's freedom from discrimination. You can't have both. You can either protect someone's "right" to discriminate, or you can protect someone's freedom from discrimination.

I'd really like to hear your thoughts on that. And as soon as I figure out how to make a poll, I'm going to put that choice there.
 
ocean515 said:
LOL.

Projecting as usual.

One big difference 'tween thee and me. I rejected any form of racism from the very beginning.

You didn't.

Chew on that as you picture yourself judge and jury.
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That's like someone who's never been a criminal telling a reformed felon that he - the law-abiding citizen - understands the way criminals think and live better than the felon does...

...and if you truly have never been racist, then just as that forever-law-abiding-citizen hasn't a clue as to the way criminals think, you haven't a clue as to the way racists think...you haven't walked a mile in their moccasins. I have. There's a LOT more psychological points I could bring up, but I'll leave it at that for now.

You say rejected racism from the very beginning...which means you really don't understand where your beliefs would lead. You can either protect someone's "right" to discriminate, OR you can protect someone's freedom from discrimination. You can't have both.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
That's like someone who's never been a criminal telling a reformed felon that he - the law-abiding citizen - understands the way criminals think and live better than the felon does...

...and if you truly have never been racist, then just as that forever-law-abiding-citizen hasn't a clue as to the way criminals think, you haven't a clue as to the way racists think...you haven't walked a mile in their moccasins. I have. There's a LOT more psychological points I could bring up, but I'll leave it at that for now.

You say rejected racism from the very beginning...which means you really don't understand where your beliefs would lead. You can either protect someone's "right" to discriminate, OR you can protect someone's freedom from discrimination. You can't have both.
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It seems you're claiming that you contain special powers to identify racists, having been one yourself.

I realize you promote this special "awakening" as a means to stake a higher ground on the subject.

The fact is, I don't need to be a felon to understand what a felony is, just as I don't need to have been a racist to understand what racism is.

As to your underlined point. Of course you can have both. Perhaps some day you will learn why that is true.
 
ocean515 said:
It seems you're claiming that you contain special powers to identify racists, having been one yourself.

I realize you promote this special "awakening" as a means to stake a higher ground on the subject.
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Experience is NOT a "special power". It's much like having served in the military for many years - when someone else speaks of their military service, you generally understand the wheres and whys and hows when they're talking. It's rare for someone to be able to successfully pretend for any real length of time to have been in the military when they talk to someone who's retired from the military. It happens, but it's rare.

So it goes with racism. When someone talks, you either hear what a racist might say...or you don't. If a racist is being very careful and doesn't want to expose himself as a racist, then just as with retired military who don't want to expose themselves as retired military, then you may or may not detect it...but if you've many years of experience at being a racist, just like one who has many years of experience in the military, you start to hear or see clues, indications...and you know in your gut that this person probably (but still might not be) one. You don't judge right away...but the longer you listen to the person or see his actions, the more likely you know, no matter how hard they tried to hide it.

The fact is, I don't need to be a felon to understand what a felony is, just as I don't need to have been a racist to understand what racism is.

As to your underlined point. Of course you can have both. Perhaps some day you will learn why that is true.
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I didn't say you needed to be a felon to understand what a felony IS - I *said* that you, as a forever-law-abiding person, are probably NOT going to know how felons THINK as well as a felon himself does.

And as to my underlined point, no, you can't have both. I've lived that life and you haven't. I know that to be true...and you simply don't.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Experience is NOT a "special power". It's much like having served in the military for many years - when someone else speaks of their military service, you generally understand the wheres and whys and hows when they're talking. It's rare for someone to be able to successfully pretend for any real length of time to have been in the military when they talk to someone who's retired from the military. It happens, but it's rare.

So it goes with racism. When someone talks, you either hear what a racist might say...or you don't. If a racist is being very careful and doesn't want to expose himself as a racist, then just as with retired military who don't want to expose themselves as retired military, then you may or may not detect it...but if you've many years of experience at being a racist, just like one who has many years of experience in the military, you start to hear or see clues, indications...and you know in your gut that this person probably (but still might not be) one. You don't judge right away...but the longer you listen to the person or see his actions, the more likely you know, no matter how hard they tried to hide it.



I didn't say you needed to be a felon to understand what a felony IS - I *said* that you, as a forever-law-abiding person, are probably NOT going to know how felons THINK as well as a felon himself does.

And as to my underlined point, no, you can't have both. I've lived that life and you haven't. I know that to be true...and you simply don't.
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Thank you for your opinion. As I have written, you are wrong. As a reformed racist, you can't possibly know how someone who has never been racist thinks, and how they perceive others. That is a fact.

In terms of "both", you are also wrong. Again, perhaps one day you may learn why in this country, that is true.
 
ocean515 said:
Thank you for your opinion. As I have written, you are wrong. As a reformed racist, you can't possibly know how someone who has never been racist thinks, and how they perceive others. That is a fact.

In terms of "both", you are also wrong. Again, perhaps one day you may learn why in this country, that is true.
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And perhaps one day you may learn why people are the same all over the world, in every other country just as in this country. You may never have been racist - and note that I'm taking you at your word - but if you say, then, that I cannot know how you think since I have been racist, then that is a tacit admission on your part that you cannot know how racists think.

Thank you for the admission. :)
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And perhaps one day you may learn why people are the same all over the world, in every other country just as in this country. You may never have been racist - and note that I'm taking you at your word - but if you say, then, that I cannot know how you think since I have been racist, then that is a tacit admission on your part that you cannot know how racists think.

Thank you for the admission. :)
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who cares? I suspect that there is no monolith for racists so your experience may or may not have any relevance to anyone else. Your posts sound like an ad for RA

Hi my name is Glen and I AM A RACIST.

reformed whatevers (smokers drinkers, sex addicts, porn fiends etc) are often insufferable
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And perhaps one day you may learn why people are the same all over the world, in every other country just as in this country. You may never have been racist - and note that I'm taking you at your word - but if you say, then, that I cannot know how you think since I have been racist, then that is a tacit admission on your part that you cannot know how racists think.

Thank you for the admission. :)
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LOL

You are right, by tacit admission I don't know how racist thinks, because it's a foreign issue to me. I've always judged a person by their character, not by any other measure. It would not be possible for anyone to steer me to any different conclusion.

However, believing yourself to be the ultimate "racist hunter" because you've been one yourself is probably one of the more crazy self centered delusions I've seen from a Progressive in recent years.

I can hear it now - "I know Republicans are racist, I know how racist think and I can smell them a mile away, because I was a racist once too."

Holy crap, that's nuts!
 
a direct tax is stealing....

income tax foundation 1913.......


The incomes of couples exceeding $4,000, as well as those of single persons earning $3,000 or more, were subject to a one percent federal tax. Further, the measure provided a progressive tax structure, meaning that high income earners were required to pay at higher rates.

It would require only a few years for the federal income tax to become the chief source of income for the government, far outdistancing tariff revenues.

Less than 1% of the population paid federal income tax at the time.

The act was applicable to incomes for 1913, 1914, and 1915

$500,000 ..... 7% top marginal rate



1942 top income tax rate...95%


communist manifesto

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
 
ocean515 said:
LOL

You are right, by tacit admission I don't know how racist thinks, because it's a foreign issue to me. I've always judged a person by their character, not by any other measure. It would not be possible for anyone to steer me to any different conclusion.
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If that's true, then I applaud you.

However, believing yourself to be the ultimate "racist hunter" because you've been one yourself is probably one of the more crazy self centered delusions I've seen from a Progressive in recent years.
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"Ultimate racist hunter"? Where did I say that? Is it really so inconceivable to you that it's easy for a person with many years' experience in a particular way of life to recognize others who have lived that same way of life? Is that really so hard for you to understand?

I can hear it now - "I know Republicans are racist, I know how racist think and I can smell them a mile away, because I was a racist once too." Holy crap, that's nuts!
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You really should stop ASSUMING, O5 - I've said many, many times that I do NOT think that most conservatives are racist...but that they DO tend to be more likely to tolerate racists.

Please stop assuming - it doesn't help.
 
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