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Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

Do The Rich Pay Too Much Income Taxes


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Well lets just acknowledge that there is a precedent for graduated income tax.

Also, the government isn't forcing you to work

Also, really? the government forcing people to have sex? I can understand if you are passionate on the issue we are discussing, but you might want to take a step backwards to appreciate how stupid of a statement that is. revel in it.

My income is earned through my labor. When government takes a portion of my income and gives it to other people, the government has forced me to work on behalf of other people. I'm not really seeing a difference between labor and sex. They're both activities. People have sex for their own benefit. People go to jobs to earn money for their own benefit. I don't know anyone who voluntarily goes to work and then takes their paycheck and gives it to random strangers. Government has to step in and compel people to work for the benefit of strangers. If government can do that, then I'm not seeing any roadblock to government declaring a Male Virgin Emergency and setting out to solve that problem by compelling people to have sex for the benefit of others.
 
My income is earned through my labor. When government takes a portion of my income and gives it to other people, the government has forced me to work on behalf of other people. I'm not really seeing a difference between labor and sex. They're both activities. People have sex for their own benefit. People go to jobs to earn money for their own benefit. I don't know anyone who voluntarily goes to work and then takes their paycheck and gives it to random strangers. Government has to step in and compel people to work for the benefit of strangers. If government can do that, then I'm not seeing any roadblock to government declaring a Male Virgin Emergency and setting out to solve that problem by compelling people to have sex for the benefit of others.

The government takes your money, yes. It's called being a part of a community. You know how they teach you to share in kindergarten? Same basic principal.
I have trouble understanding where people get off thinking that this is some new atrocity. Taxes have existed since the beginning of stratified civilization.

And just stop with the sex metaphor. it's poorly constructed, slightly offensive, and in no way pertinent to the argument. Think of it this way, income tax has existed in this country since the passage of the 16th amendment (thus is completely constitutional) now please point out how forcing sex on people is constitutional?
 
For the same reason some religions have tithes. The community as a whole dictates that a percentage is more fair than a set number. It is unfair that the poor pay the same amount as the rich when it is more detrimental to them to pay the fee.

How is it unfair? Because you say so? The poor take up more governmental money by percentage than the wealthy. Why should they get away scott free?
 
He who does not work, neither shall he eat. Lenin said that. Judging from your posts, he's a guy you can get on board with.

Why stray from his principles?

Because I am not a Libertarian does not mean I am a Leninist-Marxist. There is a large spectrum of political thought, not simply one-or-the-other classifications.
 
How is it unfair? Because you say so? The poor take up more governmental money by percentage than the wealthy. Why should they get away scott free?

getting away scott free? do you believe the poor enjoy being poor and laugh at the rich paying taxes. Have you ever tried to put yourself in another's shoes. If you were poor would you say the same thing?
 
Because I am not a Libertarian does not mean I am a Leninist-Marxist. There is a large spectrum of political thought, not simply one-or-the-other classifications.

You are a hardcore statist and absolutist. Marxism-Leninism is fitting right into your wheelhouse. If you want to deny it because you're afraid of being stigmatized, go ahead.

I just see what I see.
 
He who does not work, neither shall he eat. Lenin said that. Judging from your posts, he's a guy you can get on board with.

Why stray from his principles?

by the way, I am in NO WAY advocating people don't work. All I was saying was that there is no law forcing you to have a job, just like there's no law forcing sex. Although RiverDad really seems to want that law.
 
The government takes your money, yes. It's called being a part of a community. You know how they teach you to share in kindergarten? Same basic principal.
I have trouble understanding where people get off thinking that this is some new atrocity. Taxes have existed since the beginning of stratified civilization.

And just stop with the sex metaphor. it's poorly constructed, slightly offensive, and in no way pertinent to the argument. Think of it this way, income tax has existed in this country since the passage of the 16th amendment (thus is completely constitutional) now please point out how forcing sex on people is constitutional?

You know what's offensive? Your continual habit of rhetorical sleight of hand. People understand the need to pay taxes for roads, policing, courts, national defense, border control, and such and they object to paying taxes so that the incomes of strangers can be supplemented. So when you come off all innocent-like and point to taxes being in existence for a long time to pay for PUBLIC GOODS, then you're insulting everyone here.

There is no reason to tax me to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. You getting your hemorrhoids fixed benefits ONLY YOU, not the community. For the government to be so intrusive as to compel people to pay for you hemorrhoid operation is the equivalent of government compelling people to have sex.
 
You are a hardcore statist and absolutist. Marxism-Leninism is fitting right into your wheelhouse. If you want to deny it because you're afraid of being stigmatized, go ahead.

I just see what I see.

No, ill admit i'm a socialist. I'm proud of that, but i'm not a Leninist. There's a difference, if you want to know my leanings, think Germany and England. Socialized health-care and a few other key institutions that are too important to be run by private for profit interests. In no way absolutist. That would be communism, which anyone can see is a system that does not work.
 
I'm going to post this one more time because all of our resident communists have simply ignored this graph earlier in the thread.

The United States already has the most progressive tax system in the world. If we're already the most progressive, perhaps the problem here is not "we need more progressivity in the tax system."

international_tax_progressivity.png
 
by the way, I am in NO WAY advocating people don't work. All I was saying was that there is no law forcing you to have a job, just like there's no law forcing sex. Although RiverDad really seems to want that law.

Your quote states otherwise. You basically just said, "Don't like to pay taxes? Don't work".

There isn't an ideology out there that doesn't find that disgusting. Even socialists and communists don't support personal defiance through self-enforced unemployment.

Relax. It's nothing I haven't seen before. Almost every progressive kid on this boards thinks that the rich owe them a living. You're not alone.
 
You know what's offensive? Your continual habit of rhetorical sleight of hand. People understand the need to pay taxes for roads, policing, courts, national defense, border control, and such and they object to paying taxes so that the incomes of strangers can be supplemented. So when you come off all innocent-like and point to taxes being in existence for a long time to pay for PUBLIC GOODS, then you're insulting everyone here.

There is no reason to tax me to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. You getting your hemorrhoids fixed benefits ONLY YOU, not the community. For the government to be so intrusive as to compel people to pay for you hemorrhoid operation is the equivalent of government compelling people to have sex.

I'm happy you understand the need for taxes, but sadly, some people don't understand the basic principal. And like I said before, if you're passionate about taxation that's fine. It's your right as an American citizen. But no, paying for someone's operation is not as intrusive as compelling people to have sex. My main problem isn't with your stance, as much as it is with your poor comparisons.
 
There's a difference, if you want to know my leanings, think Germany and England.

Germany you say? OK, I'm fine with the top 10% of Americans paying the same proportion of taxes as Germany's top 10% of taxpayers. Thanks for offering.

international_tax_progressivity.png
 
I posted again just to clarify on this point. Sure it was a poorly worded original post, but as I've clarified, I wasn't advocating that, chill out sheldon
 
Germany you say? OK, I'm fine with the top 10% of Americans paying the same proportion of taxes as Germany's top 10% of taxpayers. Thanks for offering.

international_tax_progressivity.png

Sorry, a bit of confusion here, when I was talking about Germany I was responding to Gipper's post calling me a Leninist. What I was referring to was the socialism in that country which allows healthcare for all of its citizens, as well as free education for its people. I can understand how you took me to mean their tax structure. And in regards to the graph, Ill look into that. Like I said before, I was more angry with your sex metaphor than your argument.
 
No but the upper middle class sure as hell do...

Government employees pay too much taxes too. Wait! Doesn't there paycheck come from the government? It would be completely impossible for a government employee to pay taxes. lol I was stupid when I made that first sentence. I guess I didn't think it out all the way.
 
But no, paying for someone's operation is not as intrusive as compelling people to have sex. My main problem isn't with your stance, as much as it is with your poor comparisons.

Your standards don't prevail. Let me put on my socialist hat. I don't care what burdens I put on the people who are compelled to provide the sex. I happen to think that compelling people to do so will create a more equal, a "MORE FAIR" sexual marketplace - there are too may winners in the sexual attraction game and too many losers. Socialism in sex is the next new thing for socialism's mission of creating equality everywhere.

If you, as a socialist, reserve the right unto yourself to declare that it is appropriate to steal one person's labor to pay for the personal consumption by another person, then I, being a momentary socialist, have the same freedom to declare that it is appropriate to impose the "sex tax" on attractive people. In both cases someone has to be made to comply in order to fulfill the greater good of creating both economic equality and sexual equality.
 
You basically just said, "Don't like to pay taxes? Don't work".

That strategy only works 100% of the time. This is exactly what someone should do if their taxes are too high. Duh! It's not rocket science.
 
....Why is it my burden to equalize some other person's income? Why can government force me to WORK and then take the proceeds of my LABOR and give that to another person.....

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because the government requires minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because the government insures that they are safe and work as advertised. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because the government provides laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient because the government protects his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because the government enforces laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, the government provides affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; if Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a government required worker compensation or unemployment check.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because his legislators decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because the government provides car safety standards and maintains the roads. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government its nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his dad who is now retired and lives on Social Security.

On the way back he turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that government is bad. Joe agrees, “We don’t need big government ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”

Original version written by John Gray, Cincinnati, Ohio. Revised by Hard Truth
 
Most of the taxes that we pay are used for INCOME REDISTRIBUTION and not for providing PUBLIC goods, like roads, schools, border control, national defense, policing, courts, etc.

Are you sure about that?
 
It is unfair that some young men are virgins and other young men are scoring with lots of women.

It is unfair that some couples are infertile while other couples have lots of children.

Lot's of things in life are unfair. That doesn't mean that you should discriminate against people in order to remedy that unfairness.

I don't think this is the purpose of taxation.
 
Why is it my burden to equalize some other person's income?

It isn't. You dont have to do it.
RiverDad said:
Why can government force me to WORK

They are the government. They have a police force and an army. They can pretty much do whatever they want. On the other hand, if you are talking about the United States government, they do not engage in forced labor.

RiverDad said:
If the government can FORCE me to WORK then why can't the government FORCE people to have SEX?

Nobody said they couldn't. They can force people to have sex.
 
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