View Poll Results: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Income Taxes

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  • Yes

    38 33.93%
  • No

    72 64.29%
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    2 1.79%
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Thread: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

  1. #201
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    So when Kobe sees his measly millions in taxable income he pays 39.6% on federal income tax, plus the state taxes of California. And Cali loves that entertainment money.

    Meanwhile, Mr Gates will pay either 15% or 20% tax on the capital gains he makes from stock or dividends (it would not surprise me if he claims $0 income from Microsoft just to pay no capital gains) assuming they qualify as "long term."

    That's how I understand it. I am wrong? If not then that's an issue for me.

    edit: Like Lincoln said, A dollar from labor should be valued higher than one from capital.
    He he he. Yes. You can own a C corporation such as Microsoft and work for absolutely free. If you have enough control of the company you can elect to not pay out dividends. You can choose not to sell any of your stock. You can live off of money that you saved up last year. Guess what? You have $0.00 taxable income for that year. Your net worth could increase by trillions of dollars and none of it is taxed until you cash in.

    Does that make sense? People have complained about this loophole so I don't know if it works this way any more.

  2. #202
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    That's how I understand it. I am wrong? If not then that's an issue for me.

    edit: Like Lincoln said, A dollar from labor should be valued higher than one from capital.
    Can we agree that taxes distort behavior? If you're prepared to spend $10,000 to buy a car and that $10,000 car, which you actually believe is worth $10,000 but not $10,050, now costs you $11,500 with taxes, then you're not going to buy that car.

    Well taxes also distort capital allocation decisions. If you're faced with a higher capital gains tax, then you're more inclined to keep your investment capital in place, with unrealized capital gains, even if a slightly better alternative investment is available, because to free up the cash to invest in the alternative you have to cash out your investment and pay the capital gains tax. The higher the tax the more reluctant you become to switch out.

    What this all means is that investment is misallocated. The best uses for capital are not funded. This translates into economic inefficiency. Taxes distort behavior.

    The question for liberals is this - Do you want the government to have more tax money to spend or do you want more "fairness" even at the cost of less tax money to spend?

    Here's President Obama being questioned on this issue:

    GIBSON: All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, "I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton," which was 28 percent. It's now 15 percent. That's almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.

    But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.

    OBAMA: Right.

    GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.

    OBAMA: Right.

    GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.

    So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?

    OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.

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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    It's exactly the same with businessmen because someone is CHOOSING to pay those businessmen their salaries.

    Secondly, what's up with everyone being a Nosy Betty and sticking their noses into what other people are making. No one is taking your money and giving it to Kobe or Tim Cook.
    No it isn't and why can't people see wealth distribution in the business world as idiotic and unfair and comment on it?
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  4. #204
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The question for liberals is this - Do you want the government to have more tax money to spend or do you want more "fairness" even at the cost of less tax money to spend?
    Good luck getting a straight answer on that one.

  5. #205
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Interesting question, but I will have to do more research to give a qualified response.

    Edit: I mean my experience with the capital gains tax is limited, to say the least.
    down for you is up

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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'll toss up a challenge to the last 2 sentences, Bodi. Hope all is well!

    The CEO of a very large multinational company has an enormous responsibility, and has to answer to the Board, stockholders, hell - even the freaking media.

    Why would anyone want to take on that kind of job and not get paid accordingly? $1 million isn't that much money. And good luck getting someone to do that job at the same pay as someone who has almost no responsibility for the massive bottom line.
    CEOs of most large companies make much more than 1 million. I just threw that out. And good luck only in that is what they expect because that is how it is set up. If it was changed and they made 500K a year, which is a ****ing ton of money... they would do it. If there were salary caps, they would still do it.
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    I don't view it as ridiculous at all. What I view as ridiculous is your assertion that no one is worth that level of income. How much, in your world, should someone be "allowed" to earn?
    I don't know but the difference in pay is ridiculous and unfair and making 1 million or more while others have to fight just to survive is illogical and ridiculous. I am not even a liberal... just a realistic conservative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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  8. #208
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    CEOs of most large companies make much more than 1 million. I just threw that out. And good luck only in that is what they expect because that is how it is set up. If it was changed and they made 500K a year, which is a ****ing ton of money... they would do it. If there were salary caps, they would still do it.
    So you would like government to set wage scales for every position with a maximum of $500K? How much productivity do you think might be lost because of this?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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  9. #209
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I don't know but the difference in pay is ridiculous and unfair and making 1 million or more while others have to fight just to survive is illogical and ridiculous. I am not even a liberal... just a realistic conservative.
    No, your views are more along the lines of Marxist...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  10. #210
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    Re: Do The Rich Pay Too Much Federal Income Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    Interesting question, but I will have to do more research to give a qualified response.

    Edit: I mean my experience with the capital gains tax is limited, to say the least.
    Whenever an investor cashes out an investment which has experienced capital gains he takes a tax hit and nets out a lower amount. That's easy to understand. This though has implications for his own investment decisions and for the economy in general. If he keeps the investment in place, then it can compound annually with a larger capital base.

    Let's put some numbers into the mix. He starts with $1,000 and over time it grows to $2,000. Now he comes across a new investment which yields 10% per year instead of his current yield of 9%. What choice should he make?

    If he stays put, $2,000 @ 9% returns $180 per year.

    If he cashes out in order to invest in the new opportunity, then his $1,000 capital gains is taxed at 28%, or $280, and he now has a net investment of $1,720 at 10% which returns $172 per year.

    He's better off staying put and the government loses $280 in tax revenue this year.

    What happens if the capital gains tax rate is 15%? His capital gains taxes are $150 and he now has $1,850 to invest @10% which returns $185 per year.

    He's now better off exiting his present investment and moving to the new investment. The government also reaps $150 in tax revenue that it wouldn't receive if he stayed put and the economy is slightly better off because investment capital has moved from a use which could only afford to pay 9% return on capital to one which can afford to pay 10% returns.
    Last edited by RiverDad; 04-16-14 at 08:21 PM.

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