View Poll Results: was the rancher right or wong

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  • he was a freeloader

    32 69.57%
  • he should not have to pay the gov

    8 17.39%
  • he should settle this in court

    6 13.04%
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Thread: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

  1. #31
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    He should follow the law. There's a way to combat the law if he feels it's wrongful. If he went that route and lost, then he needs to suck it up or suck up that the government will take action to enforce the law. He's in the wrong in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    Not if they are paying their taxes and not making their livelihood stealing from the Government. So no, not at all.
    To my understanding, this man isn't avoiding ALL taxes just some, nor is his livelihood being made specifically from stealing from the government (Though that is part of it).

    Similarly, illegals...unless they've stolen the SSN of another person....are also avoiding at least SOME taxes, and thus making at least part of their livelihood by stealing from the government.

    It's funny how some people, on both sides, seem to care about the "rule of law" only when it suits them.

  2. #32
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    I wish we had all the information.
    The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, says the Government can administer the land use.
    The Secretary of the Interior is authorized to issue or cause to be issued permits to graze livestock on such grazing districts to such bona fide settlers, residents, and other stock owners as under his rules and regulations are entitled to participate in the use of the range, upon the payment annually of reasonable fees in each case to be fixed or determined from time to time in accordance with governing law.
    Federal Grazing Fee
    The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year’s level. (An AUM is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) The grazing fee for 2014 is $1.35 per AUM, the same level as it was in 2013.

    The Federal grazing fee is computed by using a 1966 base value of $1.23 per AUM for livestock grazing on public lands in Western states. The figure is then adjusted each year according to three factors – current private grazing land lease rates, beef cattle prices, and the cost of livestock production. In effect, the fee rises, falls, or stays the same based on market conditions, with livestock operators paying more when conditions are better and less when conditions have declined.
    So The government started charging in 1966, the rate went up to $1.35 in 1986, and is still there.
    I wonder if the BLM issued the rancher a new permit, or told him he could not renew, 20 years ago?
    From the original article,
    “For more than two decades, cattle have been grazed illegally on public lands in northeast Clark County,” the BLM said in a statement. “BLM and (the National Park Service) have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially. Impoundment of cattle illegally grazing on public lands is an option of last resort.”
    So in 1994, the BLM told this rancher, whose family had been using this land for over 100 years, to stop
    using the land, no new permit would be issued.
    His choice was to shut down his business, or allow his cows to keep grazing without a permit.
    All of the other ranchers in the area have shut down operations, (because they have no way to graze their cattle.)
    Most of us drive to work, we drive on public roads.
    Using these roads require us to buy permits to take our vehicles on said public roads.
    Suppose one day the Government said, we will no longer issue you a permit for your car!
    You say how am I supposed to go to my job? not our problem is the response.
    A better analogy might be truckers who use the roads a lot, and pay special road use fees.
    The point is the power to tax (and charge fees) is the power to destroy,
    Sometimes our Government exercises the destroy option, and the people whose lives
    are destroyed, are likely not happy.

  3. #33
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    It as litigated in the wrong court. How are you gonna have a Federal judge rule on a case where the plaintiff is the Federal government?

    Nah, no conflict of interest there...

    It should have been decided in a State court.
    ...what? That is like... why we have a Federal Court system... to rule on Federal law. Your criticism would breakdown our entire legal system. How can a municipal judge fairly adjudge any case that the town or county brings--he's part of that layer of government! Silly.

  4. #34
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    ...what? That is like... why we have a Federal Court system... to rule on Federal law. Your criticism would breakdown our entire legal system. How can a municipal judge fairly adjudge any case that the town or county brings--he's part of that layer of government! Silly.
    The Federal Court System, is like, not the only one who rules on Federal Law...

    Cases in Federal and State Courts

    No my criticism wouldn't break down the entire legal system. My criticism was a reduced argument. One that would have been elaborated on if children learned to mind their manners.

    Good day!
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  5. #35
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Yes, he was wrong. You can't use someone else's land without paying for it unless they allow you to.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    With all the billions that the Kochs and Adelson are throwing at hit ads against DEM Senators,
    you'd think they could toss a billion at Bundy and keep paying his welfare.

    Adelson after all threw millions at his ex-attorney Shelly Berkley to help elect Sen. Dean Heller.
    In a time of cooperation, I could tell you of some good things with Sen. Heller .
    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    The Federal Court System, is like, not the only one who rules on Federal Law...
    Cases in Federal and State Courts
    No my criticism wouldn't break down the entire legal system. My criticism was a reduced argument.
    One that would have been elaborated on if children learned to mind their manners.
    If Bundy wants to pay Nevada, he pays $12 a head per year versus $1.35 a head to the USA .
    Physics is Phun

  7. #37
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    And...now he has a bunch of tea party cowboys trying to help him continue doing so.
    All these idiot yahoo's on their horse waving their flags as if they are true patriots makes me and at the same time... a difficult feat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #38
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    It as litigated in the wrong court. How are you gonna have a Federal judge rule on a case where the plaintiff is the Federal government?

    Nah, no conflict of interest there...

    It should have been decided in a State court.
    They did pretty well with regards to Brown v Board of Education 1954. There are many other positive examples as well...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #39
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    The militia sniper and the other militia cowards who closed I-15 and threatened to put women in front of them have
    severely damaged the brand of sane 2nd amendmenters.

    You don't notice the National GOP on this, just Sean Hannity.
    On dp, you don't see the usual gun passionists defending Bundy.
    This is still as sane a board as I can find .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    All these idiot yahoo's on their horse waving their flags as if they are true patriots makes me and at the same time... a difficult feat.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    No, it is not plain stupid. Calling that which you disagree with stupid is childish. Grow the F up...
    It isn't stupid but it is ignorant in a nave kind of way... not understanding history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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