View Poll Results: was the rancher right or wong

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  • he was a freeloader

    32 69.57%
  • he should not have to pay the gov

    8 17.39%
  • he should settle this in court

    6 13.04%
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Thread: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

  1. #21
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    He's a freeloader. Most of the ranchers pay what they owe and he should not get away with breaking the law. I'm surprised some republican politicians have supported him when typically they tend to be staunchly against freeloaders.
    What about the 20 million illegal Mexicans, are they freeloaders too?

  2. #22
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    His argument is that his hereditary rights of land use trump BLM custodianship. It was fought in a Federal court, it should have been in a State court.
    He claims that his Mormon ancestors where there before the federal government, true. We should point him in the direction of the nearest reservation so he understands what the value of that claim is.

    Of course, I am talking about his illegal grazing activities, not the ranch his family homesteaded. After the federal government created that program and gave people the right to some acreage in exchange for living there.

    But after income tax, property tax, RAMPANT eminent domain abuse, DHS, extrajudicial killing of American citizens, NDAA, NSA spying, Fast-n-Furious, Ben Ghazi, Solyndra, IRS targeting political opponents, ACA, AG Perjury, etc ad-nauseum it was only the latest affront to the dignity of a free people.
    Bro you serious?

    Manifest destiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This country was literally built on the idea of using the federal government to force people from their land and redistribute it to white settlers. Or should I say grazers?
    down for you is up

  3. #23
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    What about the 20 million illegal Mexicans, are they freeloaders too?
    Not if they are paying their taxes and not making their livelihood stealing from the Government. So no, not at all.
    down for you is up

  4. #24
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I am sorry, but sometimes an argument is not one that has merit but I simply disagree with. Sometimes an argument is plain stupid. For example, to argue that federal law should be adjudicated in the state court system because "there is a conflict of interest" is just plain stupid. We have a separation of powers in this country and an independent judiciary. This is 4th Grade Civics we are talking about.
    Still doubling down. Considering that the position I gave was one that I was convinced of by an argument made from a former Superior Court judge I think I'm gonna side with him rather than some smart ass keyboard cowboy that doesn't know his ass from his elbow... Perhaps if you made it past 4th grade civics you'd understand some of the intricacies which I won't waste my time on you with in explaining...
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    3. Perhaps the reason why he is the only rancher left out there is because he is grazing his cattle in a desert and competing with ranchers in the plains and Midwest that can raise far more cattle, for less expense, on less land because that land is more suitable for agricultural purposes.
    If you're going to get mad at the federal government over this, get mad at the fact that corn industry is so overwhelmingly subsidized that the seasonal, and healthier, grazing cow ranches are almost completely out of business.
    down for you is up

  6. #26
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    Not if they are paying their taxes and not making their livelihood stealing from the Government. So no, not at all.
    They came across the border illegally. They don't pay taxes and they get free medical and food stamps.

    Are they Freeloaders yet?

  7. #27
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    They came across the border illegally. They don't pay taxes and they get free medical and food stamps.

    Are they Freeloaders yet?
    Contrary to popular opinion, the IRS does not **** around, and when workers are not paying taxes the situation does not usually last long.

    There is an old saying: Nothing is guaranteed but death and taxes.

    How they pay

    Income Tax

    Every time you receive a paycheck, you probably notice that something is missing. That’s because your employer automatically withholds federal, state, and local income taxes and Social Security and Medicare taxes. Immigrants also have money automatically deducted directly from their paychecks —even those who are here illegally. But how? Well, the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else. They get on the payroll by using fake or fraudulent social security numbers or social security numbers of the deceased, which are easily available from counterfeiters for a couple hundred dollars. A growing number of undocumented immigrants now file their income taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). ITINs are issued by the IRS for filing purposes only and do not provide permission to work. According to the most recent estimates, at least 3 million unauthorized immigrants filed income taxes using ITINs in 2009. (NOTE: the IRS does not report undocumented immigrants to the Department of Homeland Security.)

    Sales Tax

    Every time you buy something, you pay sales tax. That money goes to state and local governments. Staying at a hotel or renting a car, you pay state and local taxes. If you fill up your gas tank, you automatically pay state and federal gasoline taxes. If you buy liquor or cigarettes, you automatically pay various local, state, and federal excise taxes. Immigrants—legal and undocumented—all buy things, and thus pay these taxes as part of their purchase.

    Property Tax

    Local governments also collect property taxes, which are a percentage of the value of one’s home and fund services like schools, certain medical services, and police and fire stations. Immigrants—legal and unauthorized—pay these taxes directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent (clearly, landlords factor property taxes into rent).
    You can paint them as a boogeyman all you want. They aren't the ones ****ing the middle class.

    http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-...nts-pay-taxes/
    down for you is up

  8. #28
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Double post, but I'll share an excellent video explaining the "extinguishing" doctrine on federal land once new states became admitted.

    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  9. #29
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    1. The issue of federal land being transferred to a state upon that state being granted statehood is adjudicated in congress at the time statehood is granted.


    2. If the rancher has an issue with the federal government owning 80% of the land in Nevada, then he is free to petition his representatives to change that or support candidates that share his view. However, most likely the land being desert has little value, and the state does not want much of it because it would lose money on it. That is why a lot of land is in BLM hands rather than state or private hands. The BLM loses money managing it, grazing and usage fees only partially offset that. Usually the state doesn't want it because the state doesn't want to lose money on it.

    3. Perhaps the reason why he is the only rancher left out there is because he is grazing his cattle in a desert and competing with ranchers in the plains and Midwest that can raise far more cattle, for less expense, on less land because that land is more suitable for agricultural purposes.
    The federal government may hold territories and make rules regarding their management, however WITHIN the states the federal government has limited power:

    "To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;"

    So the land it either territory, or it isn't, and it was extinguished as state land. And if it isn't territory, the federal government must have received persmission from the state legislature to purchase and control state property.

    These sites have good information on this understanding:

    Resolution Demanding that Congress Convey Title of Federal Public Lands to the States - ALEC - American Legislative Exchange Council

    LOFTI: Who actually "owns" America's land? A deeper look at the Bundy Ranch crisis | Ben Swann Truth In Media
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  10. #30
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    Re: Was the rancher in nevada wrong about not paying for grazing to the gov?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    What about the 20 million illegal Mexicans, are they freeloaders too?
    In some cases.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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