View Poll Results: Is it the government's job

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Thread: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

  1. #81
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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yeah, this and some other individuals posts similar (paschendale I believe) was kind of my point.

    There are a number of laws that one could make an argument DO regulate based on morality to some degree depending on a persons view.

    Murder is a wonderful example. My making it illegal to murder people, the government is also in a sense suggesting it backs the notion that murdering someone is immoral and thus regulating morality.

    However, it could also be argued that the law's primary and/or singular purpose isn't simply to enforce morality but to protect the rights of one person from being infringed upon by another.

    Then again, someone could say that such a notion is in and of itself one based off the notion of a "moral" argument.

    That's why I'm not one to pound the table going "GOVERNMENT SHOULD NEVER REGULATE MORALITY". Well, no...because that's such a broad notion.

    I think there are some basic jobs of government that are set out in our founding documents. Now whether or not those jobs are based on the notion of enforcing morality or not is debatable. But to me, a law needs to connect to that pretty tangably as it's main reason for existing.

    A law stating you can't have consensual anal sex is something I can't fathom any legitimate reason for OTHER than a notion that it's immoral and should be frowned upon.

    But this is definitly the type of thing that SEEMS like a cut and dry question on the surface, but isn't. It seems cut and dry because people think of it in terms of what I just said above. "Oh no! We shouldn't have laws keeping people from having consensual sex in whatever manner they want!".

    But look at something different...what about a law that authorizes the government to help fund a museum.

    Could it be argued that instilling a sense of culture and history in the citizenry is something that is felt as morally important? At the very least, could it be argued as a law/act of government that is trying to instill or promote a general notion of a style or type of culture?
    While there can be no reasonable doubt that the law has some basis in morality, and some laws demonstrate that clearly, the law can also be justified on the basis that their purpose is to ensure the maintenance of an orderly and civil society. I don't think it requires an excess of logic to see how allowing murder would lead to a disordered and uncivil society.

    And while "the maintenance of an orderly and civil society" can be seen as an ethical value, it could also be seen as a selfish one too.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #82
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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    How is that? Because Roe v Wade is the law, and that doesn't fit the conservative agenda? You want to strip the laws of the land to suit the conservative righteous morals? Whilst interfering with other people's lives? I always thought conservatives were for less government. I doesn't look that way to me today, nor did it look that way to me in the past 40+ years I've been voting.
    Well the GOP has gotten away from the less government ideal but, I personally don't want the government to be making murder legal. Down with RvW.
    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity. Be fools for Christ. And have the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world." - Antonin Scalia

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Well the GOP has gotten away from the less government ideal but, I personally don't want the government to be making murder legal. Down with RvW.
    I've served up my last comment on this thread, it's led to bickering.

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    I've served up my last comment on this thread, it's led to bickering.
    Alittle off topic but, it's debate.
    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity. Be fools for Christ. And have the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world." - Antonin Scalia

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    "IDK" and other are much the same...
    Both the people and our government must work on this and work together...
    One, without the other, would be futile at best.
    No vote, as usual...
    It simply has to be the people and our Government working together...
    After man fully grows up and matures, then he can petition government to "legalize" murder...
    Imagine, if you will, a world where NO-ONE commits mudrder....so , to have murder illegal or legal would be meaningless...
    Last edited by earthworm; 04-14-14 at 01:46 PM.

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    We accept that there is a connection between law and morality, but what sort of connection is it? Their domains are clearly not entirely identical - for example, it may be wrong to lie to your parents, but it certainly is no business of the law. Perhaps the best way to explain this is to acknowledge that the law is an extremely blunt tool.

    Law is the mechanism (usually a set of norms/rules with corresponding sanctions) by which we define interpersonal relations. Morality is the categorization of human behaviors as “good” and “bad”, which, is a wholly personal, subjective exercise without recourse to objective moral truth or authority.

    It is the governments job to make laws, enforce and govern by them, based on the concepts of justice, equality and rights. These principles are simple and basic in nature, so as not to confuse the whole process with the varying types of religious or personal moralities, which are individual standards based on personal values and faith. The structure of our legal-governing values has to be based on "the rule of law" and equity of results.

    The legal maxim of this standard is "equity regards as done what should have been done", or "equity will not suffer a wrong to be without a remedy". This is stating that basically everyone has equal rights under the law and justice is blind and impartial to station, position or wealth.

    Basing the governments rule on the ever changing standards of personal morality and social ethics would be a mistake. All cases and legal decisions have to revert back to the simple maxims of law, to dodge the exceedingly complex details of morality based on subjective personal views.

    That's why we often see the Law as too literal and unfair, not considering our individually biased viewpoints and emotional judgments. There has to be a common ground that all opinions fall on and settle, as the fairest possible outcome, or nothing would ever be ruled on.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Alittle off topic but, it's debate.
    This is bickering law vs morality now.

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    So by your standards, whatever they might be, it is okay for lawmakers of our government to interfere with people's everyday lives, including telling people what they can and cannot do in bedrooms, or with their own body.

    That's pretty telling of a conservative's take on wanting little or no government involved in people's lives, which is what republicans and conservatives always tout, less government.

    A bit hypocritical in my view.
    I never had the government tell me what I can do in my bedroom. I keep my bedroom affairs and my bedroom preferences private. You don't?

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    This is bickering law vs morality now.
    Our laws should be a reflection of our moral fiber not the whims of those who wish to do what is convenient.
    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity. Be fools for Christ. And have the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world." - Antonin Scalia

  10. #90
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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    We accept that there is a connection between law and morality, but what sort of connection is it? Their domains are clearly not entirely identical - for example, it may be wrong to lie to your parents, but it certainly is no business of the law. Perhaps the best way to explain this is to acknowledge that the law is an extremely blunt tool.

    Law is the mechanism (usually a set of norms/rules with corresponding sanctions) by which we define interpersonal relations. Morality is the categorization of human behaviors as “good” and “bad”, which, is a wholly personal, subjective exercise without recourse to objective moral truth or authority.

    It is the governments job to make laws, enforce and govern by them, based on the concepts of justice, equality and rights. These principles are simple and basic in nature, so as not to confuse the whole process with the varying types of religious or personal moralities, which are individual standards based on personal values and faith. The structure of our legal-governing values has to be based on "the rule of law" and equity of results.

    The legal maxim of this standard is "equity regards as done what should have been done", or "equity will not suffer a wrong to be without a remedy". This is stating that basically everyone has equal rights under the law and justice is blind and impartial to station, position or wealth.

    Basing the governments rule on the ever changing standards of personal morality and social ethics would be a mistake. All cases and legal decisions have to revert back to the simple maxims of law, to dodge the exceedingly complex details of morality based on subjective personal views.

    That's why we often see the Law as too literal and unfair, not considering our individually biased viewpoints and emotional judgments. There has to be a common ground that all opinions fall on and settle, as the fairest possible outcome, or nothing would ever be ruled on.
    Pretty good but I would change "interpersonal relations" to "social relations"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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