View Poll Results: Is it the government's job

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Thread: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

  1. #71
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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Why? Because you're of an arrogant belief that you are an all knowing arbiter of how to define things that are not universally definable? Or because you're ignorant of the fact that everyone doesn't share a similar view point as you when forming their opinions.

    For pro-lifer folks (rejecting your retarded and childish procolomation of "anti-choice" as much as those who claim pro-choice individuals are "pro-abortion"), the mindset is not one of enforcing morals. Rather, it's an extension of the commonly held notion that one of the legitimate roles of government is to protect the livelihood of an individual who is physically incapable or nigh incapable of protecting themselves.

    Just like someone who believes the government has a place in stepping in to keep a father from ending the life of his 3 year old son for reasons other than "regulating morality", someone who believes the government has a place in stepping in to keep a mother from ending the life of her unborn son for reasons otehr than "regulating morality". It is not an instance of needing to regulate morality, but rather to protect the rights of those who can not reasonable protect themselves.

    As to regulating morality by the government, in general I believe it has no place in doing so if the PRIMARY purpose of a law is to in terms of regulating morality. However, I think there are reasonable times where morality being regulated is a potential side effect of a law.
    This thread should never have been started here. I motion it be moved to the abortion debate forum.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It will be interesting because many anti-choicers (and I call them that because that is exactly what they are) believe that the "protect[ing] the livelihood of an individual" is a legitimate role of government even though the Constitution clearly only protects "persons"
    You call them that because of your egotistical belief that somehow your opinions are facts and because you have a severe inability to argue your opinion in any kind of meaningful or persuasive manner and thus must relay on cheap emotional ploys and demonizations as a means of deluding yourself into believing you're making a good point.

    Pro-Life is accurate with regards to the view point, mentality, and reasoning that goes into that sides position on the issue.

    Pro-Choice is accurate with regards to the view point, mentality, and reasoning that goes into that sides position on the issue.

    Pro-Abortion and Anti-Choice work only by applying the other sides view points, mentality, and reasoning erroniously upon the other side and labeling them based on that.

    And as I stated, your ignorance and arrogance on this subject highlights the ridiculousness of your attempts to proclaim that it's a moral based argument. Contrary to what you may wrongly believe, your opinion is not universal law. There is no unquestioned, definitve, universally provable means of defining exactly at one stage or point of a humans existance that they are deemed a "person". There is not some magical sign hovering over every persons head, be they laying in a crib or inside the body of another, that suddenly lights up and say "I'M A PERSON NOW!" once they hit some magical stage. Ultimately, "person" is simply a definition created by man and is arbitrarily placed upon a human at a given point. YOU and pro-life individuals simply have a difference of opinion regarding when a human should be considered a "person". You, in your gross arrogance, judge the other side based on an ignorant assumption that they must hold the same definition as you and thus must base their opinions on that definition. This is unquestionably a poor assumption.


    A pro-life's persons position on abortion, generally, is no more concerned with "regulating morality" than such a persons view regarding laws on murder is "regulating morality".

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    This thread should never have been started here. I motion it be moved to the abortion debate forum.
    Moderator's Warning:
    Is it the government's job to regulate MoralityThe thread is a poll in nature, and is not specific to abortion...indeed, the OP didn't even mention abortion. A poster simply offered it up as an implied example of what he believes such a law to be. In the future, if you feel a thread is misplaced please use the report button (triangle with a !) and let the mods know your views. Posting matters of board organization in thread is not on topic and potentially leads to derailment if discussion occurs regarding whether a threads placement is correct or not. Thank you

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They do in fact regulate morality. Murder could even be considered a moral issue. Anyway, I think it depends on the issue, and whether is fits within the intent of the Constitution.
    Yeah, this and some other individuals posts similar (paschendale I believe) was kind of my point.

    There are a number of laws that one could make an argument DO regulate based on morality to some degree depending on a persons view.

    Murder is a wonderful example. My making it illegal to murder people, the government is also in a sense suggesting it backs the notion that murdering someone is immoral and thus regulating morality.

    However, it could also be argued that the law's primary and/or singular purpose isn't simply to enforce morality but to protect the rights of one person from being infringed upon by another.

    Then again, someone could say that such a notion is in and of itself one based off the notion of a "moral" argument.

    That's why I'm not one to pound the table going "GOVERNMENT SHOULD NEVER REGULATE MORALITY". Well, no...because that's such a broad notion.

    I think there are some basic jobs of government that are set out in our founding documents. Now whether or not those jobs are based on the notion of enforcing morality or not is debatable. But to me, a law needs to connect to that pretty tangably as it's main reason for existing.

    A law stating you can't have consensual anal sex is something I can't fathom any legitimate reason for OTHER than a notion that it's immoral and should be frowned upon.

    But this is definitly the type of thing that SEEMS like a cut and dry question on the surface, but isn't. It seems cut and dry because people think of it in terms of what I just said above. "Oh no! We shouldn't have laws keeping people from having consensual sex in whatever manner they want!".

    But look at something different...what about a law that authorizes the government to help fund a museum.

    Could it be argued that instilling a sense of culture and history in the citizenry is something that is felt as morally important? At the very least, could it be argued as a law/act of government that is trying to instill or promote a general notion of a style or type of culture?

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    No, absolutely not, please tell your GOP representative to get the f*ck out of America's bedrooms and out of women's lives.
    Please tell your Democratic representative and the First Lady to get the f**k out of American's kitchens too.

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    To the poll, I voted no.

    I know my life better than some politician who doesn't know me. The government should do the minimal amount of governing. "Morality" can't really be regulated or governed. Morality is a personal thing.

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    NOT

    Roe v Wade is a woman's right to privacy and to do as she chooses in making her own decisions, among other things.

    That's not regulating morality, that's regulating what other people believe either by religion or by their own beliefs and by their own so called moral standards, which take away a woman's rights.
    It allowed her and her doctor to commit an immoral act....so YES it did.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Please tell your Democratic representative and the First Lady to get the f**k out of American's kitchens too.
    So by your standards, whatever they might be, it is okay for lawmakers of our government to interfere with people's everyday lives, including telling people what they can and cannot do in bedrooms, or with their own body.

    That's pretty telling of a conservative's take on wanting little or no government involved in people's lives, which is what republicans and conservatives always tout, less government.

    A bit hypocritical in my view.

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You call them that because of your egotistical belief that somehow your opinions are facts and because you have a severe inability to argue your opinion in any kind of meaningful or persuasive manner and thus must relay on cheap emotional ploys and demonizations as a means of deluding yourself into believing you're making a good point.

    Pro-Life is accurate with regards to the view point, mentality, and reasoning that goes into that sides position on the issue.

    Pro-Choice is accurate with regards to the view point, mentality, and reasoning that goes into that sides position on the issue.

    Pro-Abortion and Anti-Choice work only by applying the other sides view points, mentality, and reasoning erroniously upon the other side and labeling them based on that.
    There is no reasonable doubt that the issue about whether people have the right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. Both sides agree with this, regardless of their preferences concerning terms.


    And as I stated, your ignorance and arrogance on this subject highlights the ridiculousness of your attempts to proclaim that it's a moral based argument. Contrary to what you may wrongly believe, your opinion is not universal law. There is no unquestioned, definitve, universally provable means of defining exactly at one stage or point of a humans existance that they are deemed a "person". There is not some magical sign hovering over every persons head, be they laying in a crib or inside the body of another, that suddenly lights up and say "I'M A PERSON NOW!" once they hit some magical stage. Ultimately, "person" is simply a definition created by man and is arbitrarily placed upon a human at a given point. YOU and pro-life individuals simply have a difference of opinion regarding when a human should be considered a "person". You, in your gross arrogance, judge the other side based on an ignorant assumption that they must hold the same definition as you and thus must base their opinions on that definition. This is unquestionably a poor assumption.
    Regardless of how one feels concerning the definition of the word "person" as commonly used, the fact remains that the only definition that matters is the one the Framers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution. Just as you are free to use the word "person" as you see fit, so too were the Framers, and when they wrote the Constitution, the unborn were not included.



    A pro-life's persons position on abortion, generally, is no more concerned with "regulating morality" than such a persons view regarding laws on murder is "regulating morality".
    That's patently untrue. It is exceedingly clear that those who oppose the right to have an abortion base their position on morality.

    But this is not an abortion thread, so I will apologize to everyone here for derailing the thread, and will not respond to any more discussion about the issue. Feel free to have the last word.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Is it the government's job to regulate Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    It allowed her and her doctor to commit an immoral act....so YES it did.
    How is that? Because Roe v Wade is the law, and that doesn't fit the conservative agenda? You want to strip the laws of the land to suit the conservative righteous morals? Whilst interfering with other people's lives? I always thought conservatives were for less government. I doesn't look that way to me today, nor did it look that way to me in the past 40+ years I've been voting.

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