View Poll Results: Would you vote for Rand Paul in 2016?

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  • Yes

    43 48.86%
  • No

    37 42.05%
  • Undecided/other

    8 9.09%
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Thread: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

  1. #81
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    I have never seen anyone refer to someone as a "RINO" because they are too economically rightist.

    While it's a term with little meaning enough as is, and frequently misapplied, you are applying it in a manner entirely opposite to its usage.
    Not at all.
    Republican In Name Only

    Rand Paul has extremist views on social and economic issues. As witnessed by most Americans who watch MSM.

    I don't view the tea party as republicans, which is what Paul represents. Some libertarians like him, some dislike him. I doubt he'll receive a GOP nomination though, his views are too extremist.

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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Not at all.
    Republican In Name Only

    Rand Paul has extremist views on social and economic issues. As witnessed by most Americans who watch MSM.

    I don't view the tea party as republicans, which is what Paul represents. Some libertarians like him, some dislike him. I doubt he'll receive a GOP nomination though, his views are too extremist.
    You don't seem to get it.

    Tea Party folks are the ones that call the establishment folks RINOs. They're often correct to do so.

  3. #83
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Except for what is still a slight majority of the GOP, the elitist neo-cons OWNED by Sheldon Adelson and Dick Cheeney.
    Rand Paul is far to the left of the Neo-Cons, as evidenced by his support from liberal DEMs on foreign policy/NSA/drone issues.
    As we've seen with R. Paul calling out Cheeney on Haliburton.

    And then there's Paul tweeking Jeb Bush on Immigration, where most GOPs support R. Paul's position at this time.
    The GOPs are all over the place on dozens of issues right now, as Paul promised, reinventing the GOP .
    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Paul, the latter, is not a true republican, once people understand that, they'll be better informed. In the truest sense of the word, he is a R.I.N.O. because he doesn't have views consistent with the republican party, his views are more to the right of most republicans, more extremist.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    You don't seem to get it.

    Tea Party folks are the ones that call the establishment folks RINOs. They're often correct to do so.
    And the establishment GOPs like Boehner call traitors like Snowden "traitors", who Rand Paulites defend .
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  5. #85
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Paul, the latter, is not a true republican, once people understand that, they'll be better informed. In the truest sense of the word, he is a R.I.N.O. because he doesn't have views consistent with the republican party, his views are more to the right of most republicans, more extremist.
    The reality is that there are two major parties in this nation that have any legitimate chance of succeeding on a national stage; The Democratic Party and the Republican party. The democratic party leans left in terms of the scope of the american political spectrum and the republican party leans right. Those who lean decidingly more right than left make more sense as a part of the Republican party, and vise versa for those leaning left. Rand absolutely leans right, and at times far right on certain issues as it relates to the american spectrum. But that doesn't suggest he is ill suited for being a part of the Republican Party any more than an individual like Olympia Snowe or John McCain leaning right, and at times extremely moderately right, is ill suited to be part of the party.

    Again, don't presume that my support from Paul is born out of ignorance of his views, beliefs, or ideological lean. Such a notion is hardly the case. While I definitely disagree with Paul on certain issues, the reality is there's very few politicians out there that I agree exactly with 75% of the time let alone 100%. However, I do agree on a large number of issues with Paul and I do agree on a large number of ideological view points with Paul. Addition7ally, I have a decent trust in him in regards to pragmatism and realism as it comes to actually actively persuing various policies. I believe Paul to be an academic of sorts and someone who is prone to speak at length on a political issue in a way similar to how a professor may discuss it; but that hypothetical/theoritical views on politics don't always materialize into actual tangible, realistic policy.

    Take for example legalization of drugs. This is something that I can easily see him acting like many individuals on this forum; discussing it and debating it from an ideological stand point that drugs should all be legalized. However, debating something from an ideological stand point of a theoritical situation and debating about actual tangible policies you would actively want to see are two different things. Ideologically, I can absolutely see an argument (and even in engage in such) that all drug use should be legalized. However, realistically, I'd never support or suggest a need for an utter reversal of all of our drug laws partially because we don't live in a theoritical word and realistic deference to the realities of our society need to be taken into account with law.

    Too often, people mistake ideology with policy. Ideology can DRIVE policy, but they are not one in the same. And sometimes something that is ideologically correct is not necessarily the best POLICY, at least to the purest of ideological degree. This is because ideology functions in a sort of vacuum or at best in a generalized concept of the world where as policy needs to accurately weight the realities of the situation present at that moment in the general public.

    As was the case with Ron Paul, many of the more problematic view points that I may have with Rand are things that I think he either speaks of more from an academic ideological perspective rather than tangible policy agendas or are items that would never have a realistic chance of passing and as such are of little true worry other than as a means of attempting to play on peoples fears. Perhaps if the POTUS had dictatorial powers to simply act or not act in any way it wishes I would be more worried, but that is not the case in our system of government.
    Imagine if Walmart owned access to all the streets in your town. You can go to Target or the mom and pop downtown if you want, but all the roads leading there require a toll, whereas the roads leading to Walmart are free. That is not the avenue the internet needs to go down.

  6. #86
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And the establishment GOPs like Boehner call traitors like Snowden "traitors", who Rand Paulites defend .
    Never seen anything about Snowden that indicates traitorous behavior - breaking his word, yes, but it's hard to decide what's more lawful, keeping government secrets for the sake of keeping that confidentiality promise, or letting the public know when the government itself is breaking the law?

    The public should know, because the government should stop. We should make them stop. We can't make them stop if we don't even know they're doing it.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 04-14-14 at 01:16 PM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Never seen anything about Snowden that indicates traitorous behavior - breaking his word, yes, but it's hard to decide what's more lawful, keeping government secrets for the sake of keeping that confidentiality promise, or letting the public know when the government itself is breaking the law?

    The public should know, because the government should stop. We should make them stop. We can't make them stop if we don't even now they're doing it.
    Do you think Putin knows any of Snowden's secrets?

    When one supports a certain view on the USA government breaking the law every time, which is SOP for libertarians from the get go,
    one has a double-standard on being a traitor.

    The USA's POTUS has both hands tied behind his back with an impotent Congress on Ukraine and elsewhere .
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  8. #88
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The latest from the right-wing in denying which party they are and who they vote for.
    I don't know what you're talking about here.

    I identify with the Republican party. Typically, I vote Republican. Occasionally, I vote Libertarian. I'm open to voting for whatever individual most closely matches my views AND who I feel comfortable saying is unlikely to act in a way I STRONGLY feel is harmful to the state/country. However, being a conservative, I roundly acknowledge that the most likely situation in such instances is that I'd be voting Republican.

    Invented by the asinine teabaggers themselves, with teabags hanging from their hats .
    The notion they invented it is unequivocably false, and I've documented it plenty of times in this forum. I can go dig up the information as well. The first known instances of individuals referring to Tea Party members as "teabaggers" were by liberal commentators.

    While it is true that some Tea Partiers had tea bags on their hats prior to that, and did send Tea Bags as a form of protest, there is no record of any tea partier referring to themselves or the collective group in that fashion prior to those commentators referring to them as "tea baggers".

    While one could argue that it's reasonable to call someone who sends tea bags to people a "tea bagger", that is not the same as suggesting they invented the specific term as a name referencing themselves. It simply suggets they took an action that potentially invited the word.

    This would be like me calling all Democrats Jackasses, and claiming they invented the term for themselves because they choose to use a Donkey as their parties icon and thus invited the term "jackass" as a means of referencing them.

    Which, of course, would be asinine. In reality, the Democrats would not have invented the term "jackass" as a means of describing them but rather me, acting like a juvenile 7 year old out back on recess, deciding to mock and belittle them by taking something they did and using it as a basis for calling them an insulting and mocking name.
    Imagine if Walmart owned access to all the streets in your town. You can go to Target or the mom and pop downtown if you want, but all the roads leading there require a toll, whereas the roads leading to Walmart are free. That is not the avenue the internet needs to go down.

  9. #89
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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Do you think Putin knows any of Snowden's secrets?
    It's a fair question. How would we know the answer, though?

    He's shared a lot of what he found out with everyone, quite publicly.

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    Re: Would you vote for Rand Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    I don't view the tea party as republicans
    While you're absolutely free to have that opinion, understand it's just a factually incorrect opinion.

    There are members of the Tea Party movement that are registered as Republicans. They are, factually and unquestionably, "republicans". The members of the tea party caucus are individuals who won elections as a Republican, are endorsed by the Republican party, are in congress as "Republicans". They are absolutely Republicans.

    You're free to have the opinion they aren't Republicans, but that opinion is actually factually incorrect.

    Now, an opinion that they're Republican's in name only is not necessarily factually incorrect, but that is basically a subjective notion as opposed to an objective one like "they're not republicans". However, I'd be interesting to know what the exact criteria is to be a "Republican" as I would think it'd be rather difficult to deem someone a Republican in name only unless there was some kind of clear definition as to what a Republican is.
    Imagine if Walmart owned access to all the streets in your town. You can go to Target or the mom and pop downtown if you want, but all the roads leading there require a toll, whereas the roads leading to Walmart are free. That is not the avenue the internet needs to go down.

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