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Should Personal Lives Matter?

Should a politicians personal life be taken into account?


  • Total voters
    32
Americans have weird hangups about sex. That's why sex scandals captivate our attention so much. They don't matter at all. Nobody has ever suggested that JFK was a worse president because of his sexual escapades. Nobody has ever suggested that Thomas Jefferson was a worse president because of his tendency to rape his slaves. Nobody has eve suggested that George Washington was a worse president for his numerous infidelities.

It's clear that our elected officials' sexual proclivities have nothing to do with their ability to govern, and using that as a yardstick to judge anyone is going to lead us to make bad decisions. We need to get over our scandalous love affair with... well... scandalous love affairs.
 
The only difference between today and 40/50 years ago is that you now have no integrity or decency in journalism, you just have various levels/depths of gutter tabloid journalism. People are foolish if they think that politicians only suddenly in the last couple of decades discovered sex, gay sex, drugs, booze, gambling, etc. Same goes for movie stars, sports "heroes", and anyone else in the public eye. There was a time when "news" actually meant something that affected people in some way - now "news" is basically reality TV at its meanest level.
 
Americans have weird hangups about sex. That's why sex scandals captivate our attention so much. They don't matter at all. Nobody has ever suggested that JFK was a worse president because of his sexual escapades. Nobody has ever suggested that Thomas Jefferson was a worse president because of his tendency to rape his slaves. Nobody has eve suggested that George Washington was a worse president for his numerous infidelities.

It's clear that our elected officials' sexual proclivities have nothing to do with their ability to govern, and using that as a yardstick to judge anyone is going to lead us to make bad decisions. We need to get over our scandalous love affair with... well... scandalous love affairs.

Oh for heaven's sake. JFK's infidelities are legendary for sure, but such are the substance of sensationalism in unauthorized biographies and there was zero concrete evidence presented and they certainly were not flaunted during his tenure of office and made a public spectacle. Do I believe he committed them? Probably just because of some less sensationalized admissions and the general history of the whole Kennedy clan is not one of exemplary behavior in that regard, but neither did anybody presume to suggest that it was okay.

As for Jefferson and Washington, there is some historical evidence that Jefferson was in love with one of his slaves and as such it was a consensual relationship rather than rape as you put it. No evidence whatsoever that he engaged in rape. And there is zero evidence of any Washington affairs. Nor was there ever any suggestions that such was okay and just overlooked as unimportant by the people of those times. Nonsense about this stuff is put out and sensationalized and elaborated and exaggerated to ridiculous heights on leftwing blogs by people who want to destroy and bury the heritage of this country so that society can be reformed into what they want it to be.
 
Would you hire a babysitter known for child molestation?
Would you hire a cashier known for stealing money?
Would you hire a roofer known for bailing on the job before it was finished?

What a person does in their personal life is the de facto #1 qualifying/disqualifying measurement in terms of hiring. It's that way because people bring their personal life to work because work and life is inseparable. I do not understand if that's not a requirement voting aged people use when considering an elected official.

Ah, but those things are job-performance related, and should be considered by anybody responsible for hiring. That's not your personal life.
 
Ah, but those things are job-performance related, and should be considered by anybody responsible for hiring. That's not your personal life.

That is a valid point. But in the case of those elected to high office or who hold other prestigious offices/titles, they are in a unique position of having great power and influence over others. The politician or CEO who has an illicit liaison that was possible or solicited because of his power and influence is not exactly operating purely within the parameters of his private personal life. And such can be validly used as a test of character that should be included in evaluating that person's suitability for their position. Those who conduct their personal lives honorably will almost always conduct their public lives honorably. And vice versa.
 
Americans have weird hangups about sex. That's why sex scandals captivate our attention so much. They don't matter at all. Nobody has ever suggested that JFK was a worse president because of his sexual escapades. Nobody has ever suggested that Thomas Jefferson was a worse president because of his tendency to rape his slaves. Nobody has eve suggested that George Washington was a worse president for his numerous infidelities.

It's clear that our elected officials' sexual proclivities have nothing to do with their ability to govern, and using that as a yardstick to judge anyone is going to lead us to make bad decisions. We need to get over our scandalous love affair with... well... scandalous love affairs.

In JFK's time, the press kept a "respectful distance." Ordinary people had no idea about his philanderings, and I really doubt that most ordinary people knew about Washington or Jefferson's sexual activities either.
 
Can you think of a good example where this has proved to be the case? Can you think of a politician who behaved badly in his private life and then behaved similarly poorly in his (it's usually male) professional life? I'm sure such examples must exist, I just can't think of one.
I said "can indicate", not "indicates".

It's a bit of data that is added to the pile.
 
In JFK's time, the press kept a "respectful distance." Ordinary people had no idea about his philanderings, and I really doubt that most ordinary people knew about Washington or Jefferson's sexual activities either.

And do you think that those activities made them worse at their jobs? Do you think that we should have forgone having them as presidents because of their sexual actions? I think it's silly that we care, and insane that we make decisions about who our leaders should be based on their sex lives. Clearly the philanderings of those three didn't disqualify them for the offices they held. So why should we oust anyone else for it?
 
I was listening to NPR today at work and an interview came on that I thought was very interesting.

Here's what's going on:


The gist of it is, this guy, Narendra Modi, is running for prime minister in India with the persuasive platform that because he is living the bachelor life, he will have more time and ability to devote himself to the job. It turns out he actually still has a wife, although he contends that the marriage was loveless and purely a business relationship, which based on the limited evidence presented, seems reasonably likely to be true. What really got me thinking was when the interviewer was speaking with a supporter of Modi, and asking her about how this recent revelation might affect his chances or anyone's opinion of him.

I can't find the transcript of the interview, but basically she was saying, 'why would his personal life matter when we have so many other problems at hand?' The interviewer countered with something like, 'well, shouldn't it matter?'

And that's the question, should it matter?

It seems to me that when these politicians get busted in the US, your anthony weiners, your john edwardssss, your kissing congressmen etc. they aren't kicked out because they're bad politicians (partisan feelings aside) but simply because of a misstep in their personal lives. I'd also point out that there are probably plenty of politicians, good and bad, that probably did these things and got away with it. Look at Thomas Jefferson and all his slave babies.
And, I think with the advent of social media these kinds of things will only become more prevalent when the younger people start getting into office and the things they put on facebook/twitter/DP fourms ten years ago will come back to haunt them.

Bill Clinton was president during one of the most prosperous times in US history, and he was almost removed from office for getting a BJ. The current president of France, Francois Hollande is in the middle of some serious soap opera business right now as well, yet few french consider that something revealing about his effectiveness. Do Americans put too much stock into it, assuming that it is some non-criminal aspect of their personal lives?

I think this is a huge reason our politics are the way they are. It seems like a great idea to only elect the squeaky clean moral poster boy for American values, but the people that actually have those values by and large don't want the political life. So what you end up getting is the people who can LIE about being the squeaky clean moral poster boy and can LIE about it right to your face without flinching for a second. This is the same kind of guy who will do or say anything to further his own interests and the only thing he's really interested in is himself. This is why our politicians on both sides of the isle have no problem intentionally misleading the public to keep themselves in power.

I'd much rather have the guys who are gay or bisexual, or have open relationships with their wives, or liked to smoke a little weed on their time off when they were younger, or visit a high class hooker every now and then, but has enough integrity to not be able to intentionally deceive his constituents for his own gain. Those are the guys that I can trust because I know they are interested in things outside of themselves.
 
I was listening to NPR today at work and an interview came on that I thought was very interesting.

Here's what's going on:


The gist of it is, this guy, Narendra Modi, is running for prime minister in India with the persuasive platform that because he is living the bachelor life, he will have more time and ability to devote himself to the job. It turns out he actually still has a wife, although he contends that the marriage was loveless and purely a business relationship, which based on the limited evidence presented, seems reasonably likely to be true. What really got me thinking was when the interviewer was speaking with a supporter of Modi, and asking her about how this recent revelation might affect his chances or anyone's opinion of him.

I can't find the transcript of the interview, but basically she was saying, 'why would his personal life matter when we have so many other problems at hand?' The interviewer countered with something like, 'well, shouldn't it matter?'

And that's the question, should it matter?

It seems to me that when these politicians get busted in the US, your anthony weiners, your john edwardssss, your kissing congressmen etc. they aren't kicked out because they're bad politicians (partisan feelings aside) but simply because of a misstep in their personal lives. I'd also point out that there are probably plenty of politicians, good and bad, that probably did these things and got away with it. Look at Thomas Jefferson and all his slave babies.
And, I think with the advent of social media these kinds of things will only become more prevalent when the younger people start getting into office and the things they put on facebook/twitter/DP fourms ten years ago will come back to haunt them.

Bill Clinton was president during one of the most prosperous times in US history, and he was almost removed from office for getting a BJ. The current president of France, Francois Hollande is in the middle of some serious soap opera business right now as well, yet few french consider that something revealing about his effectiveness. Do Americans put too much stock into it, assuming that it is some non-criminal aspect of their personal lives?

Only when it is relevant to the performance of the job.
 
I don't care what goes on in a politicians personal life unless they are hypocritical about it. If they put themselves out there like Jerry Falwell but secretly live like Hugh Hefner, then I think it matters because of the blatant hypocrisy of it. Otherwise its between them and their wife.
 
A person who cannot conduct their personal life in an honorable and ethical manner, cannot be trusted with political power.

Depends on what we consider honorable and ethical with such matters. In American politics, sex is certainly scandalous, and often career-ending. However, throughout history, leadership was often less than honorable underneath the sheets, but brilliant otherwise. Sometimes I prefer hypocrisy to purity. I find it acceptable if there are those in the know who are aware of such transgressions, but are able to keep a public face nevertheless. Celebrating debauchery in public, on the other hand, I'm not so fond of.

Hypocrisy has its own virtues.
 
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In JFK's time, the press kept a "respectful distance." Ordinary people had no idea about his philanderings, and I really doubt that most ordinary people knew about Washington or Jefferson's sexual activities either.

Jefferson's alleged transgressions were made for public display through the efforts of James Callender, who was previously in Jefferson's employ.
 
Why would you trust someone to be trustworthy in the service of others when he or she can't be trusted to keep a promise to his or her life-partner? Honor and virtue, like charity, begin at home.

Because they may actually be great at politics and governance or ruling, otherwise. It's happened frequently enough in the past.
 
Americans have weird hangups about sex. That's why sex scandals captivate our attention so much. They don't matter at all. Nobody has ever suggested that JFK was a worse president because of his sexual escapades. Nobody has ever suggested that Thomas Jefferson was a worse president because of his tendency to rape his slaves. Nobody has eve suggested that George Washington was a worse president for his numerous infidelities.

It's clear that our elected officials' sexual proclivities have nothing to do with their ability to govern, and using that as a yardstick to judge anyone is going to lead us to make bad decisions. We need to get over our scandalous love affair with... well... scandalous love affairs.

It's because we care that makes it a hindrance. So long as a leader can hide their affairs, the better for them. Once it explodes on the public scene, it then starts to impact ability to govern or rule (if the public cares enough, that is).
 
I said "can indicate", not "indicates".

It's a bit of data that is added to the pile.

So, you mean that because it could potentially affect their in-post performance (although you offer no evidence for believing it so) it would be better to pass over a candidate with a less-than-squeaky-clean private life, even if they're otherwise the best person for the post? That brings to mind the old saw that you get the politicians you deserve. No wonder parliaments all over the western world are nowadays populated by the mediocre, the bland and the carefully mendacious.
 
So, you mean that because it could potentially affect their in-post performance (although you offer no evidence for believing it so) it would be better to pass over a candidate with a less-than-squeaky-clean private life, even if they're otherwise the best person for the post? That brings to mind the old saw that you get the politicians you deserve. No wonder parliaments all over the western world are nowadays populated by the mediocre, the bland and the carefully mendacious.
Actually, that might in part be why politicians are so politicianish.

But no, I was saying that, on a personal level, a candidates personal life was info I would include in my decision. Not that what was in that personal life would be the determining factor in my decision.
 
I was listening to NPR today at work and an interview came on that I thought was very interesting.

Here's what's going on:


The gist of it is, this guy, Narendra Modi, is running for prime minister in India with the persuasive platform that because he is living the bachelor life, he will have more time and ability to devote himself to the job. It turns out he actually still has a wife, although he contends that the marriage was loveless and purely a business relationship, which based on the limited evidence presented, seems reasonably likely to be true. What really got me thinking was when the interviewer was speaking with a supporter of Modi, and asking her about how this recent revelation might affect his chances or anyone's opinion of him.

I can't find the transcript of the interview, but basically she was saying, 'why would his personal life matter when we have so many other problems at hand?' The interviewer countered with something like, 'well, shouldn't it matter?'

And that's the question, should it matter?

It seems to me that when these politicians get busted in the US, your anthony weiners, your john edwardssss, your kissing congressmen etc. they aren't kicked out because they're bad politicians (partisan feelings aside) but simply because of a misstep in their personal lives. I'd also point out that there are probably plenty of politicians, good and bad, that probably did these things and got away with it. Look at Thomas Jefferson and all his slave babies.
And, I think with the advent of social media these kinds of things will only become more prevalent when the younger people start getting into office and the things they put on facebook/twitter/DP fourms ten years ago will come back to haunt them.

Bill Clinton was president during one of the most prosperous times in US history, and he was almost removed from office for getting a BJ. The current president of France, Francois Hollande is in the middle of some serious soap opera business right now as well, yet few french consider that something revealing about his effectiveness. Do Americans put too much stock into it, assuming that it is some non-criminal aspect of their personal lives?



Well, a number of premises are at odds with the facts.

Beginning with Modi and his marriage. One first has to allow for the fact that in India, family is everything. It is a land where arranged marriages are still an accepted and sometimes desired practice, and Indian leaders have traditionally been strong on family. If I am not mistaken they are the first democracy to have a woman head of state, so some of the "western" ideas have to be set aside.

Modi was countering criticism about his unique marriage arrangement and put that spin on it.

Yes, many politicians of the past did bad things, Kennedy especially, he used prostitutes.

But let's start with Clinton and the spun doctored myth he was persecuted over a blow job. No, he was impeached by congress because he LIED under oath, a high crime of obstruction of justice.

Now THAT matters. It's about trust. Do I want a president open to blackmail?

You see, morality in public life is based on precedent, Kennedy got away with spying on Nixon, but Nixon got caught spying on the DNC, so they had to find a better way to spy. Clinton almost lost the gig, so the moral of that is don't get caught.....with an intern, hookers I guess are still cool.

In France, it is completely acceptable for a man to have a mistress, wives lovers etc. so what's going on there has no relevance whatsoever.

But, here's the point. these people have sworn at least two oaths, one a lifetime commitment of marriage, the other terms of service. When you break one vow, are you not likely to break the second? And if you lie to cover it up, to protect yourself, is that not the opposite of what that politician has sworn to uphold?

You see, in the end, it becomes a matter of trust. Will this person do what he says? Or will he stoop to self pleasuring activities that might expose him to secondary crime, blackmail, extortion....? If he lies to cover it up, what else is he lying about? What is he really telling our allies?

Then there is this. Politicians write and pass laws, expecting people to obey them, they fund massive budgets for enforcement, but seek to escape it themselves when their careers are at stake.

In any office I've ever worked in, if the head guy had gotten a blow job from an intern he would be out of a job. Because they have to raise money and campaign to get the job why should they be any different?
 
In JFK's time, the press kept a "respectful distance." Ordinary people had no idea about his philanderings, and I really doubt that most ordinary people knew about Washington or Jefferson's sexual activities either.

That is assuming that there WERE improper sexual activities going on. None of us were there and we depend on salacious curiosity and speculation and purely made up because nobody can disprove it stuff to inform us. But one thing is for sure: in Washington and Jefferson's day, a man's reputation was golden and something considered so precious they would go to almost any lengths not to soil it in any way. Now too many of the rich and famous don't seem to give a damn about their reputations--being irresponsible or 'bad boys' or 'bad girls' seems to be just one more way to get rich and famous.
 
Personal life matters, as it can be an indicator of overall integrity, but... like most other things political... we the voting public tend to allow ourselves to get bogged down in absurd and irrelevant minutiae.
 
I do not give a **** who a politician sleeps with, how many times they have been divorced, or any worthless crap like that. I want to know what a politician stands for, and how they are going to accomplish their goals, and what those goals are. However, certain things do matter. Drug use can affect judgement and performance. Corruption is a deal breaker for me, no matter what the corrupt politician stands for. But most of what people make a big deal about, I just do not care. Some married guy is caught on camera kissing some one not his wife? Don't care. Going out with a rentboy? Don't care.

I agree with you on divorce but not adultery. As for who he sleeps with, if he is married, I do. If a person is willing to betray the trust of a person they love just to get off then why believe they won't betray the trust of people they don't know? If I am going to vote for a person, I should trust that person. A person with integrity is important part of that.
 
Or be less trustworthy towards the needs and interests of his constituents? That's what I want to ask.

I'd say the obvious answer to that is yes. It seems very reasonable to me to suspect that one who has shown a proclivity for betraying trust in the past is more likely to do it again than one who hasn't.

In fact, I'd say it's naive not to believe that - to trust someone who's demonstrated a lack of trustworthiness in the past.
 
I don't think anyone should be telling others how to judge their representatives. People should judge their representatives on whatever grounds they see fit. If that includes personal lives, fine.
 
I think it matters with some vices being more severe than others.

Leading the nation and having positions of power has great impact upon citizens, I'd rather have those who have that power be in good moral character. Someone that is willing to cheat on their spouse, commit crimes, commit fraud or unethically/illegally acquire money would be a tip to me that this person shouldn't have a position of power and likely is or is more likely to be corrupt and dealing with ulterior motives among other things.
 
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