View Poll Results: Are Neocons A Threat To World Peace?

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    44 61.11%
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Thread: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

  1. #81
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    neocons aren't the only hawks. interventionism itself can be a threat to world peace in certain situations. other times, it's warranted, such as WWII. there was no way to stay out of that one, but it's debatable whether WWII would have even happened if WWI hadn't occurred.
    World War II was essentially the sequel to World War I..... Too much unfinished business from WWI.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What I find problematic is the stated policy goal of thwarting the rise of potential competitors. This is at the root of the rather destructive doctrine of pre-emption that led the US into Iraq.
    You are probably right that the doctrine of pre-emption led many to support US into Iraq although the Congressional authorization listed 23 reasons. I support it because of some of those 23 reasons such as the repression of their own people, use of chemical weapons on their own people, non-compliance with inspectors, violation of US Security Council Resolutions, and fulfilling the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998(passed by Congress and signed by Clinton).
    From almost the moment of the invasion the death rate in Iraq improved, infant mortality rates (which rose sturdily throughout Saddam's reign) improved and the population boomed from 22 million to 31 million. Despite apparently erroneous reports of 600,000 Iraqis killed as of Sept, 2006 the final count is closer to 100,000 and most of those were Iraqis killing other Iraqis in a civil war that allied forced attempted to limit and control. An improvement in the death rate from 8.5 to 5 per 1000 per year in a country of 25 million would mean c. 75,000 Iraqis saved a year. The improvement in infant mortality rates would mean thousands of saved infants per year. Something positive was going on.

    Was it worth the cost and lives? Not for the US but probably for Iraq and almost certainly for the region. Until we failed to get a forces agreement to keep some troops there, like we have in Germany 70 years after the war and Korea.

    I don't agree with use of military to potential or suspected pre-empt an attack or to control and dominate other countries but it seems that the world community should react in cases like Rwanda, Cambodia, Liberia, Congo, and Iraq for humanitarian purposes. Have no idea why we are in Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Eric7216; 04-10-14 at 11:38 PM.

  3. #83
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    That was the opine of Ron Paul and his fellow libertarians, and why I'd have voted for BHO before him had he won a R nomination. Putting your head in sand only gets it cutt off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    we have too much to do here at home to maintain a significant presence there for seventy years. if the goal is to make them want democracy, we need to make it look so good that everyone else demands it. we do that by making America even better. i support humanitarian (food / medical) aid to developing areas of the world, and that's about it.

  4. #84
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Politicians/political partisans are a threat to world peace.

    Neocons are politicians/political partisans

    Therefor, Neocons are a threat to world peace.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #85
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    You are probably right that the doctrine of pre-emption led many to support US into Iraq although the Congressional authorization listed 23 reasons. I support it because of some of those 23 reasons such as the repression of their own people, use of chemical weapons on their own people, non-compliance with inspectors, violation of US Security Council Resolutions, and fulfilling the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998(passed by Congress and signed by Clinton).
    From almost the moment of the invasion the death rate in Iraq improved, infant mortality rates (which rose sturdily throughout Saddam's reign) improved and the population boomed from 22 million to 31 million. Despite apparently erroneous reports of 600,000 Iraqis killed as of Sept, 2006 the final count is closer to 100,000 and most of those were Iraqis killing other Iraqis in a civil war that allied forced attempted to limit and control. An improvement in the death rate from 8.5 to 5 per 1000 per year in a country of 25 million would mean c. 75,000 Iraqis saved a year. The improvement in infant mortality rates would mean thousands of saved infants per year. Something positive was going on.

    Was it worth the cost and lives? Not for the US but probably for Iraq and almost certainly for the region. Until we failed to get a forces agreement to keep some troops there, like we have in Germany 70 years after the war and Korea.

    I don't agree with use of military to potential or suspected pre-empt an attack or to control and dominate other countries but it seems that the world community should react in cases like Rwanda, Cambodia, Liberia, Congo, and Iraq for humanitarian purposes. Have no idea why we are in Afghanistan.
    Well I don't agree with you at all that the cost was worth it for Iraqis or the region. The whole thing is a mess right now, but that's a discussion for another thread.

    But we do agree on the pre-emption issue which is the focus here.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I think this strategy to curb and roll back Russia in the last decade was very short-sighted and stupid, because at that time, Putin was still longing for close cooperation with the West (and the West kicked in his balls instead).

    Now we have the mess. At some point, Putin and his advisors felt "enough is enough", now are convinced it's a matter of life and death because the West wants to actually destroy and shatter Russia, and thanks to the useless neo-con wars like in Iraq, we're tired of war so much we can hardly defend ourselves.

    So yeah, pretty stupid policies by the neo-cons. However, now it's too late to whine about that and sink into self-criticism.

    The Versailles Conditions towards Germany were not smart either, 1918-1933, because it was a severe burden for the democratic system and its legitimacy. But once Hitler was in power and started annexing his neighbors in 1938, it was too late for appeasement and understanding too.
    So whatever Putin does now is because of 'the neo-cons'.
    Politics made simple.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    World War II was essentially the sequel to World War I..... Too much unfinished business from WWI.
    And the Cold War was unfinished business from WWII. We will soon see who fills the political vacuum.

  8. #88
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So whatever Putin does now is because of 'the neo-cons'.
    Politics made simple.
    Hey Grant! Look into the European section. I mentioned you there, favorably! =)

    There you can read what I really think about the entire Russia situation ... if you care, that is.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #89
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Neo Con policy direction has been trumped by Tea Party policy in the GOP.....which for foreign policy means NO policy.

    Rather than forward an agenda, it seems all we do anymore is complain about someone elses.

  10. #90
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Prominent neocon Paul Wolfowitz is famous for the following policy objectives for the US



    And



    Here it is clearly stated that the most important goal is to contain Russia. Furthermore the goal is to prevent any challenge to the leadership role of the US on the global stage.

    Do such policies put the US on a collision course with the rest of the world? Naturally everyone will not feel the way we do on certain issues and thus there will be challenges to US leadership.

    Are the neocons therefore a threat to world peace?
    Very much so. They're infected with such an extreme amount of nationalism that they don't recognize that we're all human beings and that peace, trade, and cooperation are better than manipulation, war, and bloodshed.

    As long as we have neo-con politicians that value imperialism and dropping bombs over diplomacy, America will never know peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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