View Poll Results: Are Neocons A Threat To World Peace?

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    44 61.11%
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    28 38.89%
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Thread: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

  1. #151
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Concerning preemption, here's Paul Wolfowitz

    The problem with your argument is that you have conflated support for the Iraq war as the advocation of preemption as a policy in general. There is a difference.
    Then you have completely ignored what I have written. I would have been completely and totally against the Iraq War if the only rationale was the suspected presence of WMD or suspected harboring of suspected terrorists. I am also against the Afghanistan war, the Pakistan war, the Libyan war, and the proposed Syrian war. A country has no business attacking another country because of suspected WMD or having terrorist within their borders. PERIOD. But that is what Congress voted for and the majority of Americans supported.

  2. #152
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    I honestly think that Islamic fundamentalists, Arab nationalists, North Korean oligarchs, Russian irredentists, Iranian expansionists, Syrian fascists, and their sympathizers are a bigger threat to world peace than those who think that we should conduct military interventions to promote liberal values. I have my disagreements with the neocons, but I don't quite understand why people act as if they're pure evil when the policy they promote isn't immoral or illogical at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  3. #153
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The problem with your argument is that you have conflated support for the Iraq war as the advocation of preemption as a policy in general. There is a difference.
    The greatest threat facing the world today is not war or WMD spread or US's neo-con policies but democide, the state authorized and endorsed killing of citizens of the state. Democide was happening in Yugoslavia and the US went to war and it was happening in Iraq. One estimate is 262 million were killed in the 20th century. And the international community for the most part lacks the will or political skills to successfully plead for unified action. You apparently don't care about these people unless some UN recognized and authorized entity votes to fight it.
    20th Century Democide

  4. #154
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    The greatest threat facing the world today is not war or WMD spread or US's neo-con policies but democide, the state authorized and endorsed killing of citizens of the state.
    If what Victoria Nuland has done in Ukraine results in a war between the US and Russia, the possible destruction that will result will be on a scale that has not been seen in modern history. Indeed it could bring about the end of our current civilization as we know it. Therefore I say that neocons are a threat to world peace. That said, overall their intentions are not bad. But as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

  5. #155
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    Then you have completely ignored what I have written. I would have been completely and totally against the Iraq War if the only rationale was the suspected presence of WMD or suspected harboring of suspected terrorists. I am also against the Afghanistan war, the Pakistan war, the Libyan war, and the proposed Syrian war. A country has no business attacking another country because of suspected WMD or having terrorist within their borders. PERIOD. But that is what Congress voted for and the majority of Americans supported.
    What the US Congress voted for was an authorization of the use of force. In that authorization, there was a clear reference to the President of the United States making an effort to obtain support from the UN Security Council. Bush decided to attack Iraq, totally disregarding the Security Council. Therefore, there is an argument that states that the war was in violation of international law, and that position has merit.

  6. #156
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I honestly think that Islamic fundamentalists, Arab nationalists, North Korean oligarchs, Russian irredentists, Iranian expansionists, Syrian fascists, and their sympathizers are a bigger threat to world peace than those who think that we should conduct military interventions to promote liberal values. I have my disagreements with the neocons, but I don't quite understand why people act as if they're pure evil when the policy they promote isn't immoral or illogical at all.
    There are many threats to world peace and I am not going to try to draw up an exhaustive, ranked list. To be brief, what makes the neocons such a threat is that their ideology is having a substantial influence on US foreign policy. In particular, the notion that the US should preempt the rise of competitors like Russia and China is a very dangerous. Since the mid 19th century, advancements in technology have made warfare an extremely gruesome affair. Nuclear weapons have made it worse many times over, because such weapons have the capability to destroy modern civilization. Therefore the neocons are a threat.

  7. #157
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Prominent neocon Paul Wolfowitz is famous for the following policy objectives for the US

    And

    Here it is clearly stated that the most important goal is to contain Russia. Furthermore the goal is to prevent any challenge to the leadership role of the US on the global stage.

    Do such policies put the US on a collision course with the rest of the world? Naturally everyone will not feel the way we do on certain issues and thus there will be challenges to US leadership.

    Are the neocons therefore a threat to world peace?
    Neocons are to world peace what armed victims are to reduced crime rates. Blaming them for the actions of Putin et. al. is a uniquely self-centered form of idiocy. as though Russia's historical interest in controlling its' Near Abroad through coercion and the threat of force required a few intellectuals in the United States to first identify it and posit that it was not in the interests of the expansion of liberty that is intertwined with long-term US security and global stability.

  8. #158
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    There are many threats to world peace and I am not going to try to draw up an exhaustive, ranked list. To be brief, what makes the neocons such a threat is that their ideology is having a substantial influence on US foreign policy. In particular, the notion that the US should preempt the rise of competitors like Russia and China is a very dangerous. Since the mid 19th century, advancements in technology have made warfare an extremely gruesome affair. Nuclear weapons have made it worse many times over, because such weapons have the capability to destroy modern civilization. Therefore the neocons are a threat.
    That's an interesting claim. Given that, objectively, war in the nuclear era has been cleaner and less gruesome of an affair, marked by sharply reduced civilian casualties, especially when the United States is involved, how do you defend it?

  9. #159
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Naturally everyone will not feel the way we do on certain issues and thus there will be challenges to US leadership.
    Naturally people are against human, civil, labor and environmental rights? Naturally people are against free press and speech?

    I don't think so.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Neocons are to world peace what armed victims are to reduced crime rates. Blaming them for the actions of Putin et. al. is a uniquely self-centered form of idiocy.
    You analogy is flawed because comparing the United States to victims of crimes by Russia is absurd. Rather, Russia had over 300,000 troops stationed in East Germany at the end of the cold war. Gorbhachev, with a naive belief in his concocted fairy tale of a "new thinking" of cooperation between the Russia and the US, trusted the US that it would not expand NATO even ONE INCH EASTWARD. He removed those 300,000 troops and your so called victims rolled right over the former Soviet empire. Victims indeed!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as though Russia's historical interest in controlling its' Near Abroad through coercion and the threat of force required a few intellectuals in the United States to first identify it and posit that it was not in the interests of the expansion of liberty that is intertwined with long-term US security and global stability.
    The eloquent use of the terms liberty, security, and global stability mask an ignorance of the fact that Ukraine is currently in chaos as a result of the neocon notion of preemption. Iraq and the entire ME are in chaos as a result of the neocon notion of preemption. What will it take, at nuclear war between the US and Russia before you realize that the neocon notion of preemption is a threat to world peace?

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