View Poll Results: Are Neocons A Threat To World Peace?

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  • Yes

    44 61.11%
  • No

    28 38.89%
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Thread: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

  1. #121
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Perhaps I don't quite understand what you mean, but the administration of George W Bush claimed it was preventing Saddam from launching an attack with weapons of mass destruction. So such attack had occurred or was known to me imminent. So that's preemption. In the case of Ukraine, we saw the wife of a very prominent neocon spearheading the events that lead to the fall of the Yanukovych regime. What value could Ukraine be to the US besides preempting the rise of Russia? Perhaps you mean the Iraq war of a frame up? I'm not sure.
    It seems you are using this 'neo-con' term too often and, despite your OP, aren't really relating it to any clear historical events. When you get donw to referring to the wives of neo cons as something symbolic of something then you have obviously jumped the shark.

    Using those recent definitions of your 'neo-cons have been around forever, with nothing 'neo' about them.

  2. #122
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Well yes. There foreign policy is very very pro-interventionist, and their goal is to "spread American influence" via the use of force. So yes, i would have to say so.
    Do they need a reason to be 'very very pro-interventionist' and what statements have they made to support your theory.

  3. #123
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    When you get donw to referring to the wives of neo cons as something symbolic of something then you have obviously jumped the shark.
    You tell me what could Victoria Nuland have been trying to accomplish in Ukraine other than to preempt the rise of the Soviet Union.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Yes, he did. Although I don't know why most people focus on PNAC. It was less than a dozen employees, a photocopier and fax machine renting office space from AEI. AEI was probably your best bet for a connection, as that was where Cheney and dozens of neoconservatives, Chicago school economists, and other free marketers gathered before joining the Reagan and W. Bush administrations.
    One cannot underestimate the ideological influence of William Kristol, heir to the father of the neocons, Irving Kristol. Here he lays out the following principles that which Dick Cheney was a signatory:

    American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century. We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership. As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have theresolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

    We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital --both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, in attention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

    ...........

  5. #125
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You tell me what could Victoria Nuland have been trying to accomplish in Ukraine other than to preempt the rise of the Soviet Union.
    Yes, what else could it be? Just the mention of Victoria Nuland strikes fear into the heart of every Russian.

  6. #126
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    One cannot underestimate the ideological influence of William Kristol, heir to the father of the neocons, Irving Kristol. Here he lays out the following principles that which Dick Cheney was a signatory:
    Where do you find fault with that?

  7. #127
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    At the time I thought Saddam may have had some chemical weapons. But if I remember right, I don't think I ever thought he had nukes because we would never have invaded Iraq if we seriously thought he had them.
    The Authorization for the Iraq war listed the attempt to develop nukes, not that they already had nukes. And chemical weapons were used by Saddam in Halabja. About 3 times as many Iraqis were killed there as Syrians were killed in the attack that prompted Obama to want to attack Syria. US forces were prepared for chemical and biological agents when they invaded. Soldiers don't wear that lousy protective gear unless there is a reasonable chance of use.

    I re-read your initial posting. It seems to me that US has always been a neo-con nation. It didn't take long after founding before we went after the Barbary coast pirates, against the wishes of the European powers (which controlled basically the world at the time). They seemed content to pay tribute if the pirates didn't bother their ships. The War of 1812 was basically a pre-emptive attack against the British-backed native American tribes in Ohio and what was called the NorthWest Territories. The Mexican War was some phony war made up as a result of an argument that may or may not have happened in what may or may not have been the US. Lincoln opposed the logic of the war with his Spot Resolution in Congress but we ended up swiping a Louisiana Purchase size piece of land and got a buffer with Mexico. Spanish American War started by the sinking of the Maine that may or may not have happened as we were told. But we extended our empire overseas as a result. WW1 was basically a squabble among the royal families in Europe but the questionable Zimmerman telegram caused Wilson to want to do a pre-emptive strike against Germany in retaliation. WW2 may have been the exception but FDR wanted to go to war against Germany and Pearl Harbor gave him the opening. In 1948 Truman declared Korea was out of the US sphere of influence but changed his mind when N. Korea attacked. Vietnam? Gulf of Tonkin? Rather suspicious and why did we get into basically a civil war. The Vietnamese liked us until then.
    And Iraq. The Authorization for Use of Military Force was passed with one "Nay" in Sept 18, 2001. A lot of NeoCons in Congress. And the Authorization for Iraq was passed 297-133 in the House, 77-23 in the Senate, and c. 70% of the people supported it at the time. The fact that they supported it because of the WMD question doesn't diminish the fact that it would be a neo-con idea to pre-emptively attack a country if they were working on getting a WMD and that is what Congress and the people supported.

    As to whether the US is a threat to world peace, it seems to me that there are moments of peace when one nation has so much power, as in Pax Romana or when the British Empire was supreme.
    Last edited by Eric7216; 04-11-14 at 06:02 PM.

  8. #128
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    One cannot underestimate the ideological influence of William Kristol, heir to the father of the neocons, Irving Kristol. Here he lays out the following principles that which Dick Cheney was a signatory:
    You can in fact turn down William Kristol a few notches, nor would I somehow consider him an heir to it. In many ways, you would probably want to look at Robert Kagan, Wolfowitz, and Perle for really having a clear foreign policy vision for the Neo-Reaganites. The political viewpoints fairly frequently travel down the family line, as the Podhoretz and Kagan family would very easily demonstrate. In government, a lot of people tend to view Moynihan, Wolfowitz, or Perle to be their mentors (in addition to Scoop, Zbig, and so on). William is a great short essayist with connections in Washington, but if you want to be in government, you don't necessarily knock on the door of William.

    Folks look at William a little too easily, and forget all of the rest.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-11-14 at 09:12 PM.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    It's important not to confuse neocons with true American Conservatives. Neocons tend to be Liberal voting, warmongering globalists that have wormed their way into every single presidential administration for many years. They see personal profit in constant strife and they see the American military as their own personal mercenary force, both in the Middle East and for personal gain.

    RINO John McCain is a brainless tool of the Neocons.
    Last edited by Ray410; 04-11-14 at 09:54 PM.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, what else could it be? Just the mention of Victoria Nuland strikes fear into the heart of every Russian.
    Great response there. You can't answer the question, so you just make a ridiculous statement.

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