View Poll Results: Are Neocons A Threat To World Peace?

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  • Yes

    44 61.11%
  • No

    28 38.89%
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Thread: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

  1. #111
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    I don't see how they are doing that since they are not in power or directing policy.

    The current administration may be many things it is not neo con. But they are still violently and pre-emptively attacking others.
    So I guess you just decided to discount the past 12 years of armed conflict? Are you claiming these wars weren't neo-con initiated?
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  2. #112
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Cheney isn't a neoconservative, though.
    If you say so. At the very least he spearheaded much of their policy, enough to make himself practically indistinguishable. The neocons never had a better friend.

  3. #113
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Preemption can work in certain circumstances. Other than in antiquity today's dynamics would let it work for only a short time. In any event, preemption is not really, what the US has been doing since the end of the Cold War. It has maintained a position of military power that has made it more or less immune to aggression by formal states. This has, however, been only the part of a deeper strategy than immediately meets the eye, unless one was watching for it. That effort has been rather well executed by chance or design. that is hard to tell.
    I disagree with you. Despite what had been said for external consumption, it was pre-emption that was behind the Iraq war. Not only that, but it was pre-emption that led to the recent events in Ukraine. In those cases we were pre-empting the rise of Saddam Hussein and Russia respectively. I would also argue that the Obama's so called Asia pivot is based on the notion of pre-emption of the rise of China. So I think we have been and currently are practicing pre-emption since the end of the cold war.

  4. #114
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So I guess you just decided to discount the past 12 years of armed conflict? Are you claiming these wars weren't neo-con initiated?
    Not exclusively no they were not.

    And apparently you miss the point that neo cons have not been directing policy for over 5 of those 12 years.

  5. #115
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree with you. Despite what had been said for external consumption, it was pre-emption that was behind the Iraq war. Not only that, but it was pre-emption that led to the recent events in Ukraine. In those cases we were pre-empting the rise of Saddam Hussein and Russia respectively. I would also argue that the Obama's so called Asia pivot is based on the notion of pre-emption of the rise of China. So I think we have been and currently are practicing pre-emption since the end of the cold war.
    I guess we will have to disagree, as I would not define preemption as a passe partout.

  6. #116
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If you say so. At the very least he spearheaded much of their policy, enough to make himself practically indistinguishable. The neocons never had a better friend.
    They were allies, essentially. Rumsfeld was probably the better friend, in terms of longevity, however. They both, however, didn't care much about democracy as a foreign policy plank, nor did they have the Johnny-come-lately experience as Jackson crowd, and they were often times more "conservative" than the Jackson folks.
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I guess we will have to disagree, as I would not define preemption as a passe partout.
    Perhaps I don't quite understand what you mean, but the administration of George W Bush claimed it was preventing Saddam from launching an attack with weapons of mass destruction. So such attack had occurred or was known to me imminent. So that's preemption. In the case of Ukraine, we saw the wife of a very prominent neocon spearheading the events that lead to the fall of the Yanukovych regime. What value could Ukraine be to the US besides preempting the rise of Russia?

    Perhaps you mean the Iraq war of a frame up? I'm not sure.

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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    They were allies, essentially. Rumsfeld was probably the better friend, in terms of longevity, however. They both, however, didn't care much about democracy as a foreign policy plank, nor did they have the Johnny-come-lately experience as Jackson crowd, and they were often times more "conservative" than the Jackson folks.
    Ok, but you have to admit that Cheney sure did spearhead the Iraq war which was a major neocon policy goal. Furthermore he was a signatory to the PNAC principles, a William Kristol, the son of the father of neoconservatism, project. So like I said, the neocons had a very good friend indeed in Cheney.

  9. #119
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Ok, but you have to admit that Cheney sure did spearhead the Iraq war which was a major neocon policy goal. Furthermore he was a signatory to the PNAC principles, a William Kristol, the son of the father of neoconservatism, project. So like I said, the neocons had a very good friend indeed in Cheney.
    Yes, he did. Although I don't know why most people focus on PNAC. It was less than a dozen employees, a photocopier and fax machine renting office space from AEI. AEI was probably your best bet for a connection, as that was where Cheney and dozens of neoconservatives, Chicago school economists, and other free marketers gathered before joining the Reagan and W. Bush administrations.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-11-14 at 01:33 PM.
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    Re: Are Neocons A Threat to World Peace?

    Well yes. There foreign policy is very very pro-interventionist, and their goal is to "spread American influence" via the use of force. So yes, i would have to say so.


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