View Poll Results: Does it matter Millionaire - Billionaire?

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  • No, they're both too wealthy.

    6 11.76%
  • Yes, it's a big difference.

    32 62.75%
  • Don't care, got mine.

    4 7.84%
  • Peanut butter.

    9 17.65%
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Thread: The Wealth Gap

  1. #31
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    From a "right - libertarian" ?
    The billion dollars needs defined.
    I care not for the Scrooge McDuck vaults containing trillions...dead money...of no use....same with the money in a mattress..
    But working capital, one day in the billions, the next day in the thousands....the risk......
    The tax schedules and rates can be improved.
    No human being on earth needs to have a billion dollars. That's a flaw in our system that we even have that.

  2. #32
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Because I'm European. In Europe, we made that mistake generations ago. Today, we have aristocracies. Generational wealth. These people don't work for a living. They leave that up to the "working class" (so called for a reason).

    The aristocrats live off their inheritance, the value of their land, and their inherited stock assets. They buy political power and they are above the law.

    These people are a cancer to society, and you should stop it from happening before it infects your whole society.

    What makes America great is that it's a land of opportunity where anyone can make it. Rags to riches. You are losing that.
    Problem is, as you probably know, those who have this insane insane wealth influence and pretty much own those who are in a position to limit their power. So then how do you stop it?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  3. #33
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Let's walk through a bare-bones example of how wealth is created out of thin air. You know a lot about fixing cars but nothing at all about home plumbing. I know a lot about home plumbing but nothing at all about fixing cars. If we didn't know each other, then it would take us each 1 hour to do the work that we're knowledgeable about and 6 hours to hack our way through the job we don't know anything about. Someone introduces us and we trade services. You give me one hour of your time and you fix my car and I give you an hour of my time and I fix your home plumbing problem. By engaging in this trade we've now freed up 5 hours of our time, we've created wealth when that 5 hours can now be put to some other activity which earns us money.

    Poof, right out of thin air we've created wealth and we didn't have to use resources to do it.
    I never argued that wealth cannot be created. My argument is since resources are finite then wealth is finite.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  4. #34
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    So you're asking if billionaires have more leverage than millionaires?
    If any is asking, yes, more money in this country equals more influence and power. It should not be this way. A billionaire or a homeless citizen should be heard equally.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  5. #35
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Nobody should be allowed to have a billion dollars. We need an upper-upper tax bracket of 100%.
    Get rid of that Libertarian lean, cause it doesn't even come close to fitting.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #36
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    My point was that the money supply is not finite at all, within certain parameters.
    I think you are confusing the terms 'finite' and 'fixed.' The supply of money is certainly finite, otherwise it would be worthless.

    The economy is elastic, and the supply of resources is not a distributive game.
    Can you build an acre? Can I conjure up water with my mind?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  7. #37
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Get rid of that Libertarian lean, cause it doesn't even come close to fitting.
    If the shoe fits...

  8. #38
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It doesn't matter either way to me. The economy isn't a zero-sum game, and the fact that one individual has millions of dollars doesn't mean that others have less than they would have had otherwise.
    Thats not entirely true.

    Once a certain level is reached, people stop spending money on things that create jobs and monetary velocity and start doing things like gambling on the stock market and speculating. Activities that are primarily extractive rather than productive.

    The overall economy, and everybodys quality of life is better served when a hundred people have ten million dollars each than one with a billion.

    There are reasons only a tiny fraction of the population has seen great gains the last forty years while everyone elses wages have been stagnant or even fallen.

    Extractive, non productive fiscal activities.

    Piles of money to buy politicians.

    Ego (at the end of the day, after a point acquiring more wealth is just scorekeeping and self aggrandizement. Pride and a sense of superiority.)

    Further, at any given point in time the economy IS a zero sum game. And those with most of the existing pie get most of all new pie BECAUSE they have most of the existing pie.

    The majority are poorer as a result of all this.

    When a millionaire buys a fancy car, that money goes through numerous hands. The manufacturer, his employees. The dealer and salesman. Mechanics. Etc. And all those people spend a lot of that money, on food, housing, entertainment. Providing jobs and income to MANY people as that money flows through the economy.

    When someone uses that money to speculate on real estate, for example. They make money. Maybe a real estate broker and a remodeling contractor. Far fewer "conduits" of money to flow into the overall economy. And the profits from such speculation come directly from consumers in the form of higher rents and home prices, often with no addition of value. Just artificial "shortages" that create higher prices due to perceived high demand.

    Its even worse with things like currency speculation.

    Another issue with the upper fractions of a percent is they tend to be the ones in control of everybody's retirement money. So all our eggs are in their basket. And they decide what new businesses get investment and which don't. Picking winners and losers. Based on profitability alone. Which means that a product that would improve the lives of every human on the planet but would cut into profits of companies the fund managers own stock in will never see the light of day. And highly profitable crap gets all the investment.

    So its not just the wealth the possess but that which they control as well that is problematic.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #39
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I never argued that wealth cannot be created. My argument is since resources are finite then wealth is finite.
    What resources were consumed in that scenario. What we traded was knowledge and skill.

  10. #40
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    I voted peanut butter. It's their money... If they earned it legally I don't care where it came from or how much.

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