View Poll Results: Does it matter Millionaire - Billionaire?

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  • No, they're both too wealthy.

    6 11.76%
  • Yes, it's a big difference.

    32 62.75%
  • Don't care, got mine.

    4 7.84%
  • Peanut butter.

    9 17.65%
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Thread: The Wealth Gap

  1. #21
    The Light of Truth
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    The issue isn't low level rich people, it's the uber rich, the less than 1% who own most of the country's (and world's) capital.

    Now that the plutocracy of the western world have run out of places to colonize, they're colonizing their own people: the middle class of America.

    It's a sick twist of fate, yet somehow fitting.

  2. #22
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It doesn't matter either way to me. The economy isn't a zero-sum game, and the fact that one individual has millions of dollars doesn't mean that others have less than they would have had otherwise.
    Head of Nail, meet Hammer.

    In a society marked by free trade, your income is a measurement of how much benefit you have provided to other people, which they have paid you back for in the form of cash. Limiting someone's income is attempting to limit how much good someone can do for others.

    The problem doesn't come from the accumulation of great wealth, but from the confluence of wealth and government. Bill Gates (mentioned earlier) is an excellent example. Microsoft spent nothing (roughly) on politicians.... until her competitors realized that they could use government to seek a competitive advantage. One Justice Department lawsuit later, Microsoft now owns half the Senate.

    When you start legislating buying and selling, the first things bought and sold will be legislators. If you want to get the business out of government, you have to first get the government out of business.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-07-14 at 06:23 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It doesn't matter either way to me. The economy isn't a zero-sum game, and the fact that one individual has millions of dollars doesn't mean that others have less than they would have had otherwise.
    Your assumption is that because wealth can be created, then it must infinite. The problem is that wealth has to come from a resource that is not infinite. This is most obvious in the property market where the supply of land is fixed.

    Furthermore, if you oppose the Federal Reserve like 99% libertarians, you'd realize how silly your claim is. That money is based on debt and the People become poorer because of it.
    Last edited by Geoist; 04-07-14 at 06:42 PM.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  4. #24
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Your assumption is that because wealth can be created, then it must infinite. The problem with that view is that wealth has to come from a resource that is not infinite.
    That doesn't change the statement that I made. There is not a pot of money sitting around waiting to be divided up. That is quite obvious as evidenced by the perpetual printing and manipulation of money to influence our economy.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  5. #25
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    That doesn't change the statement that I made. There is not a pot of money sitting around waiting to be divided up. That is quite obvious as evidenced by the perpetual printing and manipulation of money to influence our economy.
    I don't see how the manipulation of currency proves there is no zero-sum game. You could have all the money in the world, but it would mean nothing if I owned the Earth and its resources.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  6. #26
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Your assumption is that because wealth can be created, then it must infinite.
    Let's walk through a bare-bones example of how wealth is created out of thin air. You know a lot about fixing cars but nothing at all about home plumbing. I know a lot about home plumbing but nothing at all about fixing cars. If we didn't know each other, then it would take us each 1 hour to do the work that we're knowledgeable about and 6 hours to hack our way through the job we don't know anything about. Someone introduces us and we trade services. You give me one hour of your time and you fix my car and I give you an hour of my time and I fix your home plumbing problem. By engaging in this trade we've now freed up 5 hours of our time, we've created wealth when that 5 hours can now be put to some other activity which earns us money.

    Poof, right out of thin air we've created wealth and we didn't have to use resources to do it.

  7. #27
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I don't see how the manipulation of currency proves there is no zero-sum game. You could have all the money in the world, but it would mean nothing if I owned the Earth and its resources.
    My point was that the money supply is not finite at all, within certain parameters. The economy is elastic, and the supply of resources is not a distributive game. My income is not limited by how much money someone else has, unless I work directly for him, and only for him. There is much more at play than a total sum of resources, and a defined number of recipients.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  8. #28
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Many have become Millionaires from well run businesses that used laborers to add value to some product. They are/were making jobs. Billionaires make money by shuffling paper. Bonds, stocks, hedges, warrnats, futures, etc. and if they create a demand for any honest labor, I don't see it. An example is the recent "too big to fail" bank bailout. Trillions of dollars went to these banks. Did that create jobs? No. Why wasn't the money targetted to labor intensive recovery options? I'd guess political influence was used by these same "too big to fail" banks. The power of big money. I've seen discussion of EU aristocracy on the board and I believe we have been there a long time. JD Rockefeller had a billion dollars in `1913 and the US budget was $813 million. Who had the power. Rockefeller had sons that were also good businessmen and do politics, banks, energy corporations, etc. David Rockefeller is alleged to be the driving force behind tha NWO. Aristocracy?
    And the problem with having billions is the ability to manipulate the system to ensure you make billions more, at any costs. Look at those board members at GM that are getting all lawyer'd up, because they hid those "switch" problems with their cars over the years for money's sake.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  9. #29
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Nobody should be allowed to have a billion dollars. We need an upper-upper tax bracket of 100%.
    From a "right - libertarian" ?
    The billion dollars needs defined.
    I care not for the Scrooge McDuck vaults containing trillions...dead money...of no use....same with the money in a mattress..
    But working capital, one day in the billions, the next day in the thousands....the risk......
    The tax schedules and rates can be improved.

  10. #30
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    Re: The Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    So you're asking if billionaires have more leverage than millionaires?

    No, I'm asking why?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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