View Poll Results: If A Third Party Went Mainstream, Which One Would You Want It To Be?

Voters
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  • Libertarian Party

    33 55.00%
  • Green Party

    14 23.33%
  • Constitution Party

    2 3.33%
  • Other

    11 18.33%
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Thread: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

  1. #41
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The generals don't score 0 points...they just (almost) always lose.

    If the Libertarians became a "major player" as a 3rd party, all that would likely mean is that they and the Republicans would split 50% of the vote, give or take 10%. Thus leaving the Democrats with the other 50% (give or take).

    So while they would be a "major player" compared to today where if they got over 5% of the total vote it'd be astounding, they'd still be essentially the Washington Generals....a team that pretty much ALWAYS loses.



    The problem with the 34% notion is the assumption that you have three parties that relatively evenly split the voting populatoin.

    Going off Haymarket's (and seemingly your) logic, it's mostly Republicans voters that would flock to the Libertarian party (see haymarkets whole "courage" notion).

    So for the Libertarians to get from the low single digits they're at today to your suggested "34%", the reality is...based on the logic used to suggest they could possibly do such a thing...that extra 25 to 30% is being siphoned primarily off the Republicans instead of the Democrats.

    So to get to that 34% number, it's far more likely that the vast majority of times that would mean it'd look like:

    34% libertarian, 16% Republican, 50% democrat.

    Then it would 34%, 33%, 33% with fill in parties as you'd like.

    THEORITICALLY, you're idea in a general sense (not specific to libertarians, or to haymarkets theory on it) is correct. A third party candidate COULD concievably win IF they found some way to siphon off votes from both sides in a relatively even split.

    However, I don't think any of the three parties list above could reasonably do that, and I don't think any long stand established "party" of some sort would be able to do it. I could, on a HUGE off chance, see a cult of personality type of individual with significant financial backing possibly pushing ahead as an independent of sorts and winning on a national scale.

    But the far more likely scenario is that if a "third party" becomes a "major player" then all it's going to do is assure that two of the three "major players" are really just seat fillers. To continue the basketball analogy, you change it from a game of one and one between Byrd and Magic into a game of 1 on 2 between Jordan and two high school kids. Sure, they're in the same game as Jordan....but being in the game doesn't mean they're ever likely to win.
    I think you are being rather kind of the prospects of the Libertarians. The best they could do today - and that would be with lackluster candidates from the other two parties might be 20%. The ideology - what there is of it - is simply too far right on too many important issues to attract any of the half that normally votes Dem. I suspect money oriented Republicans - the Wall Street wing of the party - would see them as dangerous and a threat and pull out all the stops against them.

    But lets imagine for a moment that the tea party GOP elected officials had the courage of their convictions and assembled and declared themselves Libertarians and changed their party identification tomorrow. That could be the start of something that could be reaping some results - at least in those same offices - quickly. It would give them a base of elected legitimacy and they could present themselves as responsible and not just fringe zealots on the outside looking in like they are now.

    It would give them a good base to begin.
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  2. #42
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    If a third party suddenly went mainstream and got national footing, which one would you want it to be?
    For a third party to "go mainstream and got national footing" (more so than several now anyway), they would have to start by appealing to more people. The reason more people are not Greens or Libertarians is those parties do not represent their beliefs. So by requirement, any such party would not be one that is current, at least not in recognizable form.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #43
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    For a third party to "go mainstream and got national footing" (more so than several now anyway), they would have to start by appealing to more people. The reason more people are not Greens or Libertarians is those parties do not represent their beliefs. So by requirement, any such party would not be one that is current, at least not in recognizable form.
    There are plenty of people whose views line with the Green Party and Libertarian Party. These people just don't vote this way because they are afraid it will be a "wasted vote" or something.

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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    There are plenty of people whose views line with the Green Party and Libertarian Party. These people just don't vote this way because they are afraid or will be a "wasted vote" or whatever.
    More so than the big 2? And in enough numbers to make them viable? I doubt it strongly, but feel free to document your claim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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  5. #45
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    There are plenty of people whose views line with the Green Party and Libertarian Party. These people just don't vote this way because they are afraid it will be a "wasted vote" or something.
    I don't think that's true at all. Most third parties are very similar to either the Democrats or the Republicans for the vast majority of their platform, then they take one or two things to absurd extremes and that's usually what loses the majority of voters. The only people who side with these parties are those voters to whom these one or two issues mean everything. For the vast majority of people, they go with the more mainstream party because they are not extremists.
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    There are plenty of people whose views line with the Green Party and Libertarian Party. These people just don't vote this way because they are afraid it will be a "wasted vote" or something.
    I fail to see how a vote for someone with whom you KNOW you will be dissatisfied is any less "wasted". If one is dissatisfied, yet uses this argument to continue voting for the status quo, that tells me they have this insecure need to identify with what they hope will be the winning side.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #47
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    We need 5 parties in this country:
    Social liberal/Fiscal liberal - 10%
    Social liberal/fiscal conservative - 20%
    Social conservative/fiscal liberal - 10%
    Social conservative/fiscal conservative 20 %
    The "NO" party (votes "No" on EVERYTHING) - 40%

    This way it would take everyone working together to over-ride the NOs. We'd be strongly fiscally conservative with a solid socially liberal voice.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  8. #48
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't think that's true at all. Most third parties are very similar to either the Democrats or the Republicans for the vast majority of their platform, then they take one or two things to absurd extremes and that's usually what loses the majority of voters. The only people who side with these parties are those voters to whom these one or two issues mean everything. For the vast majority of people, they go with the more mainstream party because they are not extremists.
    The Libertarian Party could not be further from the Republican and Democratic Parties. The Libertarian Party stands for free markets, personal freedom, and non-interventionism. Neither of the two parties stand for any of what I just listed.

  9. #49
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    The Libertarian Party could not be further from the Republican and Democratic Parties. The Libertarian Party stands for free markets, personal freedom, and non-interventionism. Neither of the two parties stand for any of what I just listed.
    Today, that's true but there was a time when the Republican party was actually conservative and that wasn't the case. Yet even though I am very much a conservative, I'd never vote Libertarian because I want a lot more personal responsibility than personal freedom.
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  10. #50
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    The Libertarian Party could not be further from the Republican and Democratic Parties. The Libertarian Party stands for free markets, personal freedom, and non-interventionism. Neither of the two parties stand for any of what I just listed.
    Problem is that many fiscal conservatives latch onto the libertarian theme of free markets and personal freedom (for them) and don't really give a rat's arse about the rest. Libertarianism, to them, becomes a talking point and a rationalization instead of a heartfelt belief.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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