View Poll Results: If A Third Party Went Mainstream, Which One Would You Want It To Be?

Voters
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  • Libertarian Party

    33 55.00%
  • Green Party

    14 23.33%
  • Constitution Party

    2 3.33%
  • Other

    11 18.33%
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Thread: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

  1. #31
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Yeah, how dare they not agree with the current state of failure.
    Government has been working so well with the Democrats and Republicans. I can't imagine why we'd change that...


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    We've never had a substantial third party. It has almost always been a binary system, with the exception for "The Era of Good Feelings," which created a single-party system suffering even more focus to geographic differences and a lack of national coalition.
    In the 1850s, you could argue that there were 5 or 6 parties that were players. The Whigs were gone, the Republicans were a purely Northern phenomenon, and by 1860 even the Democrats had split North and South. It was precisely that split that resulted in Lincoln winning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #33
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Not gonna' happen. If it ever did go 3rd. party, it might want to be Independent.

    But then, people would need to recognize third parties. Not all people (voters) like a third party.

  4. #34
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    40% isn't the Generals, that's 0%. 40% is more like the Redskins.
    The generals don't score 0 points...they just (almost) always lose.

    If the Libertarians became a "major player" as a 3rd party, all that would likely mean is that they and the Republicans would split 50% of the vote, give or take 10%. Thus leaving the Democrats with the other 50% (give or take).

    So while they would be a "major player" compared to today where if they got over 5% of the total vote it'd be astounding, they'd still be essentially the Washington Generals....a team that pretty much ALWAYS loses.

    I you have a viable third party, you only need 34% to win. In any race other than President, anyway. In a Presidential race, 3 candidates getting about 1/3 throws it to the House.
    The problem with the 34% notion is the assumption that you have three parties that relatively evenly split the voting populatoin.

    Going off Haymarket's (and seemingly your) logic, it's mostly Republicans voters that would flock to the Libertarian party (see haymarkets whole "courage" notion).

    So for the Libertarians to get from the low single digits they're at today to your suggested "34%", the reality is...based on the logic used to suggest they could possibly do such a thing...that extra 25 to 30% is being siphoned primarily off the Republicans instead of the Democrats.

    So to get to that 34% number, it's far more likely that the vast majority of times that would mean it'd look like:

    34% libertarian, 16% Republican, 50% democrat.

    Then it would 34%, 33%, 33% with fill in parties as you'd like.

    THEORITICALLY, you're idea in a general sense (not specific to libertarians, or to haymarkets theory on it) is correct. A third party candidate COULD concievably win IF they found some way to siphon off votes from both sides in a relatively even split.

    However, I don't think any of the three parties list above could reasonably do that, and I don't think any long stand established "party" of some sort would be able to do it. I could, on a HUGE off chance, see a cult of personality type of individual with significant financial backing possibly pushing ahead as an independent of sorts and winning on a national scale.

    But the far more likely scenario is that if a "third party" becomes a "major player" then all it's going to do is assure that two of the three "major players" are really just seat fillers. To continue the basketball analogy, you change it from a game of one and one between Byrd and Magic into a game of 1 on 2 between Jordan and two high school kids. Sure, they're in the same game as Jordan....but being in the game doesn't mean they're ever likely to win.

  5. #35
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The generals don't score 0 points...they just (almost) always lose.

    If the Libertarians became a "major player" as a 3rd party, all that would likely mean is that they and the Republicans would split 50% of the vote, give or take 10%. Thus leaving the Democrats with the other 50% (give or take).

    So while they would be a "major player" compared to today where if they got over 5% of the total vote it'd be astounding, they'd still be essentially the Washington Generals....a team that pretty much ALWAYS loses.
    I was thinking winning percentage. Generals 0%, Redskins about 40%. Of course, the Generals are specifically paid to lose. I don't know what the Redskins' excuse is.



    The problem with the 34% notion is the assumption that you have three parties that relatively evenly split the voting populatoin.

    Going off Haymarket's (and seemingly your) logic, it's mostly Republicans voters that would flock to the Libertarian party (see haymarkets whole "courage" notion).

    So for the Libertarians to get from the low single digits they're at today to your suggested "34%", the reality is...based on the logic used to suggest they could possibly do such a thing...that extra 25 to 30% is being siphoned primarily off the Republicans instead of the Democrats.

    So to get to that 34% number, it's far more likely that the vast majority of times that would mean it'd look like:

    34% libertarian, 16% Republican, 50% democrat.

    Then it would 34%, 33%, 33% with fill in parties as you'd like.

    THEORITICALLY, you're idea in a general sense (not specific to libertarians, or to haymarkets theory on it) is correct. A third party candidate COULD concievably win IF they found some way to siphon off votes from both sides in a relatively even split.

    However, I don't think any of the three parties list above could reasonably do that, and I don't think any long stand established "party" of some sort would be able to do it. I could, on a HUGE off chance, see a cult of personality type of individual with significant financial backing possibly pushing ahead as an independent of sorts and winning on a national scale.

    But the far more likely scenario is that if a "third party" becomes a "major player" then all it's going to do is assure that two of the three "major players" are really just seat fillers. To continue the basketball analogy, you change it from a game of one and one between Byrd and Magic into a game of 1 on 2 between Jordan and two high school kids. Sure, they're in the same game as Jordan....but being in the game doesn't mean they're ever likely to win.
    True, it could work out the way you said, but it is also possible to win with 34%. Jesse Ventura won with 39%.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  6. #36
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    If a third party suddenly went mainstream and got national footing, which one would you want it to be?
    I don't see the Libertarian Party expanding beyond where they are now. Ever. Simply because to do so they would have to become what they despise... an organized compromising money-seeking political machine.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #37
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I like your thinking. Not necessarily to make the Democrats win, but to smash 3rd party voters to bits, make them hate politics, and drive them into even further obscurity.
    Be careful what you wish for. You may think that sounds good, but it's actually very shortsighted. Third-parties (and/or individual candidates) have never influenced elections much as individuals or parties, but their ideas have historically been cutting edge ideas that the major parties are reluctant to consider. Historically, many of these good ideas eventually get adopted by one or both of the major parties, and we all benefit. Single-issue parties tend to fade away after this happens. If we "smashed 3rd party voters to bits", then the two major parties would never evolve and would just push the same old stagnant crap on us.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #38
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie Loucks View Post
    I'd want it to be the Constitution Party so that right-wingers would have their votes divided between the Constitution Party and the Republican Party, therefore allowing the Democratic Party to win more elections due to the divided vote and forcing the Republican Party to become more moderate. Realistically, the Libertarian Party is the most likely to go mainstream.
    No thanks. I'd rather people with a shred of economic sense be in charge of the fiscal side of things. Liberals couldn't be more financially illiterate if they tried.

  9. #39
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I was thinking winning percentage. Generals 0%, Redskins about 40%. Of course, the Generals are specifically paid to lose. I don't know what the Redskins' excuse is.

    True, it could work out the way you said, but it is also possible to win with 34%. Jesse Ventura won with 39%.
    Not getting dragged into the Redskins thing :P

    And absolutely...I acknowledged that a third party would likely have a better shot at the state level than on the federal level. Also, I think there is a large difference between an individual third party CANDIDATE being viable, and a third PARTY being viable.

    And hey, even the General win SOMETIMES

  10. #40
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    Re: If A Third Party Went Mainstream...

    It's not going to happen. The only way a party can go mainstream is if it's platform appeals to a wide swath of American voters and I don't see any of the third parties that we have in America today doing that.
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