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The Source of Black Poverty

The Source of Black Poverty?

  • The culture-of-poverty option

    Votes: 21 42.9%
  • The black culture option

    Votes: 17 34.7%
  • The racism exists option

    Votes: 10 20.4%
  • All three, with some lean towards 1 & 2

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • Any combo, including government

    Votes: 13 26.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 28.6%

  • Total voters
    49
IMO, the source of 'black' poverty is a lack of integration.

'Blacks' should be integrating with other 'races' FAR more then they do.

Stop grouping only with other 'blacks', move out of 'black ghetto's' and into better areas...even if it means sharing apartments to get by at first.

Befriend people of other 'races', work with them, socialize with them, marry them (if you love them), have children with them (if you wish)..blur the 'race' distinction so America becomes a true melting pot.

But huddling together along 'racial' lines does little more, IMO, then propagating negative 'racial' stereotypes that does no good for any decent American.


It's 2014...the days of 'race-based' communities should be long a thing of the past.


You ever heard of "white flight?"
 
Historically and thru today, the two races that have done worse within the United States are the two races that never wanted to be part of the United States - African-Americans brought here as slaves and Native Americans who were slaughtered, defeated, and subjugated - both deposed of their land or taken from it.

The extreme bigotries, injustices, denial of equality, and both institutional and social abuse of both African-Americans and Native Americans is NOT ancient history of past generations now dead. That level of earned hatred does not simply vanish by declaring "we're all equal now" - when the oppressors start with 99% and the oppressed start with 1%.

There are Native Americans and African-Americans that TRULY HATE white people. While white people can say "Hey, it's all equal now" - that doesn't really work when the person claiming "all is equal" is who is who stole everything you had.

The commander of the Japanese POW camp that did such acts of torture, brutality and murder declared when the war was over "we call can be friends now." No, the prisoners threw him down a well to leave him there to slowly die of starvation in a black wet hole. Injustice isn't just erased with a declaration of "let's all be pals now."

Native American culture is far more unknown and diverse than African-American culture, and NA culture was never merged with white American culture. Nor were there genocides, sterilization campaigns, and mass relocations of African-Americans. There are Native Americans that, given the chance, would not hesitate to kill white people. Doesn't matter their age or the reason - other than they are white.

African-Americans do have reasons to be bitter and feel cheated - because they were and they are. Where I differ, though, is that hate serves no purpose. I have been in a few short arguments over "integrating into the dominate culture" with other NAs - short because I don't give a damn. DEFEATED people who are permanent defeated - as are peoples brought here as slaves and Native Americans - only have one non-self destructive alternative and that is to integrate into reality and the culture they really are in - which is the culture created by white America.

The good news is that MOST of white America is more than willing to allow such equal integration for those willing to do their half of it. Some will even give extra breaks to make it easy to do so. Hell, I'm a damn near superstar among white people. Everyone can PROVE they aren't a bigot merely by being able to say I'm one of their friends. In some regards, I can actually market it. :lol:

Lol, I've heard of people having Stockholm syndrome but this is something else completely.
 
Lol, I've heard of people having Stockholm syndrome but this is something else completely.

Your message is covert support of ethnic and racial segregation. Rethink it.
 
I think that there is an enormous amout of hypocrisy and lack of insight that surrounds this issue. It comes down to a very simple question. Either you believe that Black people are inherently lazy and immoral or you believe that a cultures history in large part shapes how that culture evolves.

We don't hesitate to take credit for the contributions our forefathers made to how white culture has evolved yet we deny the influence on black history of black culture today. How does that make sense?

Neither do we hesitate to acknowledge how our own personal history has influenced the formation of our values etc. then some blame the lack of decent parenting for the behaviors they see within the culture while at the same time condemning the child produced from that "poor parenting".

Does history only matter if we like the results? Shouldn't the premise that history impacts a cultures evolution remain consistent?

I think African Americans have the worst family structure in the land, that's why they're poor (speaking in terms of the average.)

Baby's daddy almost always leaves, leaving the mom to raise kids on her own. Mom works two jobs, kids are left alone or raised by grandparents.

Result is kids with no discipline. We've all seen how black children act. I know I have. No discipline. Running around all crazy, yelling, hyperactive, can't focus on anything. That comes from not having a mom and a dad to instill discipline in you.

That lack of discipline translates to later in life. You ever go to the movies and have black people behind you, talking the whole time? I know I have. Nearly got in a fight over it last weekend matter of fact because I told them to shut the **** up.

If you show that lack of discipline, how employable can you possibly be? How can you hold down a job? Hence they are poor.

On the biology side, there are studies that show that blacks are behind the curve when it comes to IQ scores, and supposedly those have nothing to do with upbringing or learning - it's genetic. Jews are the smartest, followed by Asians, followed by Whites, followed by everyone else, and blacks are at the bottom. I have no idea how to interpret that data, nor do I care. Clearly, there are outliers. Barack Obama, for example, is clearly smarter than the average person, very likely with a genius IQ. So for that reason, we can't discriminate on the basis of racial averages - it wouldn't be fair to the exceptions.

Overall, it's a complicated issue. Resolving it needs to start within the black community. The leaders need to find a way to promote the value of the nuclear family. That's where it starts.
 
We've all seen how black children act. I know I have. No discipline. Running around all crazy, yelling, hyperactive, can't focus on anything.

On the biology side, there are studies that show that blacks are behind the curve when it comes to IQ scores, and supposedly those have nothing to do with upbringing or learning - it's genetic. Jews are the smartest, followed by Asians, followed by Whites, followed by everyone else, and blacks are at the bottom.

That is the purest racist message to date since I've been on the forum.
 
That is the purest racist message to date since I've been on the forum.

Explain, or go ahead and derp derp yourself right out of the discussion. Throwing terms like that around without an ounce of justification. SMH.
 
Explain, or go ahead and derp derp yourself right out of the discussion. Throwing terms like that around without an ounce of justification. SMH.

Your message is per se racism in it purest form.
 
What about redneck or hillbilly trailer folk? We can all notice certain factual traits but are looking for possible answers to what causes certain cultural conditions?

Are you considering the role of government as part of American culture?
It seems to me that there are some clear lines between the growth of the entitlement society and the growth of various individual and family issues. More money for unwed mothers and infants has coincided with the increase in female led households and early pregnancies. Increase in various social spending for housing and SNAP has coincided with an increase in high school dropouts. The recent CBO report that the PPACA will result in an equivalent of a 2.5 million job loss. Some celebrated this but when people reduce their work hours because they don't need the money they will tend to have less money, less savings, and less opportunities to improve their lives. They are simply substituting government handouts for their own income and taking the extra leisure time.

As FDR stated in his 1935 State of the Union address:
The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole our relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of a sound policy. It is in violation of the traditions of America. Work must be found for able-bodied but destitute workers.

Now we have turned that upside down and celebrate the reduction in work.

Edit: And since Blacks were on the bottom economically, they have had the brunt of the negative impact of entitlement spending.
 
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Everybody blames "the man". Why is one group's "blaming the man" valid, while another's is not or seen as a "detrimental excuse"?

This forum is fill to the brim with people "blaming the man" for their lot in life.

It seems to me that lately the forum is filling with racists. It means Rand Paul has his father's Internet trolls at work.
 
Your message is covert support of ethnic and racial segregation. Rethink it.

Lol, go, sing and dance for your friends. Maybe they'll invite you to dinner every now and then.
 
Someone forgot to tell these black folks that they were suppose to remain in poverty, how dare they, don't they know they're black!?!?

Olympia Fields, Illinois - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The racial makeup of the village was 25.3% white, 69.5% black or African American, 0.1% American Indian or Alaska Native, 2.3% Asian, 0.8% some other race, and 1.9% two or more races. Hispanic or Latino residents of any race made up 2.5% of the population.[1]

For the period 2007-11, the estimated median annual income for a household in the village was $80,888, and the median income for a family was $88,839. Male full-time workers had a median income of $90,761 versus $58,750 for females.

Maybe they just did like everyone else who is successful and worked for what they have.
 
Your message is per se racism in it purest form.

Hey Joko, go fly a kite buddy. My message is 100% true in each of the facts I laid out. If you can't handle the truth, that's your hangup. Now quit being the hall monitor and go find a hobby.
 
Call me a racist if you want, but as a social worker, it is largely the "black culture option". The others play a role too, including the government, but nothing does more harm to the African American community than the African American community. It is a culture that often embraces and celebrates ignorance.
 
Call me a racist if you want

Thanks for the invite. Ok, hi racist, how you doing this evening? Hmm, no I'm not feeling that rush of moral superiority that animates all those people who love to throw the term racist around so cavalierly. Oh well, I had to give it a try, kind of like taking a first toke. Nope, nothing. Ok, you're not a racist, but it's reassuring to see that you're not frightened of being called one. Good for you for stating your opinion regardless of the threats against you.
 
Thanks for the invite. Ok, hi racist, how you doing this evening? Hmm, no I'm not feeling that rush of moral superiority that animates all those people who love to throw the term racist around so cavalierly. Oh well, I had to give it a try, kind of like taking a first toke. Nope, nothing. Ok, you're not a racist, but it's reassuring to see that you're not frightened of being called one. Good for you for stating your opinion regardless of the threats against you.

I am white and I recognize that criticizing the black community can be construed as racism. But I feel for the black community. When your young people are inundated with messages of "you have to be a famous, rich, and having lots of meaningless sex to be happy and the best way to achieve this is to be a rapper, ball player, or drug dealer" then what hope is there for your culture? I talk to teenage black boys who worship the likes of Young Jeezy, Future, and Lil Wayne and praise the idea of drinking codeine over ice or having lots of baby mommas. This is not "art imitates life" it is "art creates an imitation of life".
 
On the biology side, there are studies that show that blacks are behind the curve when it comes to IQ scores, and supposedly those have nothing to do with upbringing or learning - it's genetic.
I agree that a lot of it is genetic. Yes you will undoubtedly have idiot science deniers with an agenda call you racist for pointing out the scientific facts. But it still doesn't change the facts. As a group with a mean IQ of a mere 85, blacks are definitely at a disadvantage in the job market.

And as far as the "black culture" or "culture of poverty" holding them back, I think that is highly exaggerated. They are not lazy or averse to working. A lot of them just can't find gainful employment.
 
I am white and I recognize that criticizing the black community can be construed as racism. But I feel for the black community. When your young people are inundated with messages of "you have to be a famous, rich, and having lots of meaningless sex to be happy and the best way to achieve this is to be a rapper, ball player, or drug dealer" then what hope is there for your culture? I talk to teenage black boys who worship the likes of Young Jeezy, Future, and Lil Wayne and praise the idea of drinking codeine over ice or having lots of baby mommas. This is not "art imitates life" it is "art creates an imitation of life".

My concern for the black community takes a different form, I want them to have jobs. I believe it is devastating to black men to have such an astronomically high yearlong joblessness rate. This is why I'm so damn vocal about illegal immigration. This is a displacement that is happening. I understand that employers would rather hire a compliant Mexican illegal instead of a young black man but too goddamn bad, that young black man is a citizen and the Mexican illegal is not. With that job, a climb up the social mobility ladder becomes easier to achieve. A job is the first tool needed to start repairing the dysfunction in the black community.
 
My concern for the black community takes a different form, I want them to have jobs. I believe it is devastating to black men to have such an astronomically high yearlong joblessness rate. This is why I'm so damn vocal about illegal immigration. This is a displacement that is happening. I understand that employers would rather hire a compliant Mexican illegal instead of a young black man but too goddamn bad, that young black man is a citizen and the Mexican illegal is not. With that job, a climb up the social mobility ladder becomes easier to achieve. A job is the first tool needed to start repairing the dysfunction in the black community.

They also have to want the job. Some don't. Some of the best workers I have had the privilege to work with have been black men. But work is being undervalued in many parts of the black community. What matters now is "hussle". The ability to make money quickly and easily.
 
They also have to want the job. Some don't. Some of the best workers I have had the privilege to work with have been black men. But work is being undervalued in many parts of the black community. What matters now is "hussle". The ability to make money quickly and easily.

This is where I think that culture really does play a big part. The value of a job is best transmitted from a respected older guy to a younger guy. The appeal of hustle can only last so long in young adulthood - it's a lot of flash and its more exciting that a job, but a job is reliable and a stepping stone. If there is a generational break then you don't have those slightly older guys (I'm not talking grandpa here, but maybe late 20s) showing the way for the teens.
 
This is where I think that culture really does play a big part. The value of a job is best transmitted from a respected older guy to a younger guy. The appeal of hustle can only last so long in young adulthood - it's a lot of flash and its more exciting that a job, but a job is reliable and a stepping stone. If there is a generational break then you don't have those slightly older guys (I'm not talking grandpa here, but maybe late 20s) showing the way for the teens.

It is something. The older generation (50s and up) tend to value work ethic and usually have strong values. I am blown away by how much contrast there is between the grandparents and grandkids in many parts of the black community. It is way more stark than any other racial community.
 
Culture of poverty option.

Laziness, lack of work ethic, unskilled status, and a lack of education are the sources of poverty. I don't give a damn what color you are.

Blacks just seem more prone to blame external forces, such as "the man".
Sometimes, with complex issues, people tend to "overthink" things when, often times, the simplest explanations are the most accurate.

Well said Gipper!
 
What about redneck or hillbilly trailer folk? We can all notice certain factual traits but are looking for possible answers to what causes certain cultural conditions?

Good point. Plenty of that here, and plenty of commonalities as well. Lack of education and family structure, along with dependence on welfare programs. Personal habits and laziness fit in there as well. Not uncommon here at the beginning of the month to see people in Walmart wearing whatever they slept in last night with a cart full of bad choices. Prepackaged foods, a carton of smokes and the latest video game. We have a very low black population here, but for the most part they are average or above average income and lifestyle.

The slavery issue is rediculous. There is nobody walking around today in this country who was a slave or slave owner. Let it go already. When I have changed jobs in the past it was not uncommon to take a week or two in between, but 200 years is a bit much, don't you think? In addition the descendants of the Chinese railroad workers did not seem to suffer the same fate. And before I get "But you don't understand because your great grandparents weren't slaves", I'm Polish. My descendants came here to escape the Nazis MUCH more recently. Somehow for them adversity built strength and character.
 
That is the purest racist message to date since I've been on the forum.

It's almost as bad as posters who lie like snakes and fabricate impossibly surreal stories.
 
I am white and I recognize that criticizing the black community can be construed as racism. But I feel for the black community. When your young people are inundated with messages of "you have to be a famous, rich, and having lots of meaningless sex to be happy and the best way to achieve this is to be a rapper, ball player, or drug dealer" then what hope is there for your culture? I talk to teenage black boys who worship the likes of Young Jeezy, Future, and Lil Wayne and praise the idea of drinking codeine over ice or having lots of baby mommas. This is not "art imitates life" it is "art creates an imitation of life".
It's not "construed as racism", it is racism. Your post is racist and you are a racist. You are treating attitudes shared by many young WHITE Americans as unique to young black Americans as a means of denigrating the latter and acting as if the latter is inferior to the former. How many young WHITE people are inundated with messages of "you have to be a famous, rich, and having lots of meaningless sex to be happy and the best way to achieve this is to be a reality star, pop star or greedy/amoral banker"? Most of them. How many teenage WHITE boys worship those same rappers you mentioned and praise the idea of smoking marijuana and using cocaine and having a hundred sex partners? Many of them.

Your racism is not in your recognition that young black people face a lot of damaging messages. Your racism is in your inability or refusal to recognize that young white people face similar damaging messages. Your racism is in treating "black culture" as inferior to "white culture" by highlighting problems in the former while ignoring the fact that the same problems exist in the latter. It's racism, pure and simple. In fact, it's kind of like how straight people denigrate gay people by attributing things like promiscuity to "gay culture" while ignoring promiscuity among straight people.
 
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