View Poll Results: The Source of Black Poverty?

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  • The culture-of-poverty option

    22 37.93%
  • The black culture option

    21 36.21%
  • The racism exists option

    11 18.97%
  • All three, with some lean towards 1 & 2

    8 13.79%
  • Any combo, including government

    16 27.59%
  • Other

    14 24.14%
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Thread: The Source of Black Poverty

  1. #61
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    This is especially true if one's sub-culture teaches that it's not only good to remain poor, but that it's not your fault and another group owes you a living. The black sub-culture does all of this and it teaches blacks that trying to get out of the ghetto, trying to better yourself, is a bad thing and one to be punished. That's why other racial groups who start out in the ghetto don't tend to remain there very long, at least in general terms. You can draw some parallels to hillbilly culture and the like, but Asians, for example, aren't generally multi-generationally poor because their cultures tend to push for improvement.
    The bolded is the primary reason I don't give any specific cultural group a free pass. Many of our immigrants come here with barely a pot to piss in, and somehow, many of them manage to succeed, in spite of language barriers and cultural barriers.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by hado117 View Post
    who do you refer to when you say "we" ? as in we give them credit for.
    We, in the general sense of the word. Why?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    And when you cut off the basics, they can be much more dangerous than you can imagine. You don't create a large welfare state, offer very little income opportunities or means of survival, then suddenly cut off all funding. The rioting mobs would rival anything seen in modern history.



    .
    I am not cowardly. I do not accept the legitimacy of coercion for my meeting someone's needs, whether it is coercion by government, or coercion by individuals, threatening me with bodily harm if I don't give in to their own wishes. Period.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  4. #64
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    I chose culture of poverty and Other (government influence) It is not black culture since in general American culture doesn't have as great an emphasis on education as most Western cultures or Asian cultures. Racism while exist in some extreme groups does exist it is not overt in the larger culture though some subconscious discrimination does exist can be fought against with self reflection to avoid such. It is the culture of poverty that is self sustaining the wrong lessons are learned about how to spend ones income and the extent that care is given to children such as reading to children. This is reinforced by government programs such as WIC which does not support two parent families to other government programs which well intended make some of them to settle with a subsistence existence.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  5. #65
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Cultural conditioning over thousands of years...these things do not simply go away overnight.
    This is a matter of perspective. You use the biological/evolutionary perspective. Thousand of years of conditioning have made them biologically prone to being poor.

    But in a different social perspective values, action, and everything else is defined together from the society. So what is to keep the black people from communicating with the rest of the American body about common values and morals and pursuing them together?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  6. #66
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    I think its a combination of both culture of poverty and black culture- the latter seems to focus on idolization of gangsta culture which seems to celebrate rather than discourage being thuggish and uneducated. Government also plays a role because of its entitlement programs that reward the poor for being poor with free money and food rather than to encourage people to help themselves.

  7. #67
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think it makes some good points, however, my issue is that the "black culture" and "poor culture" options are viewed as separate and divorced. My issue with the (generally conservative) assertion that black culture is to blame for lack of black progress is that that view tends put culture in a vacuum - in other words, there is something specific about black people and their culture that is holding them back, rather than the view that any race that has gone through what blacks have gone through in American history would likely be facing the same situation.

    Whereas I personally believe that if the roles had been reversed - this is is a hypothetical of course - that if blacks had colonized America and enslaved whites and marginalized their opportunities, then whites would be in the same exact situation as blacks are in now. Racial minorities are in their respective situations today because of history and because of ongoing social forces stemming from that history. What many people like to do to too often is to blame the victim. Is that to say that black people shouldn't do more to uplift themselves? Of course not, but if we're going to actually achieve racial equality one day we also have to understand the real root of the problems themselves, and simply blaming blacks for their own problems is not a conclusion that fits the evidence.
    How does your theory fit in with the minority immigrants that came to the US with nothing and made a success of their families in just 1 generation? Throw in the Jews that made it to the US with nothing and were able to send their kids to college to make something out of their lives.

    Why is it said that blacks cannot escape poverty because they historically did not own anything when immigrants did escape poverty starting with literally nothing?

  8. #68
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    The bottom line is that any explanation that concludes the position of the black population in American society is a function of some deficiency of blacks and "black culture" is racist. Even further, those who advocate that explanation are racists. . .
    You know what you left out of your conclusion, likely because you were writing in leftist shorthand, you omitted any reference as to whether these explanations were correct or incorrect. Normal people aren't so much interested in whether a conclusion is racist or not, they're interested in whether it is correct or not.

    You now leave the readers with the possibility of someone who advances that position being both correct and racist. Good job there Brownie.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Research shows that black people also face hiring discrimination.
    You mean like this gem of a finding which replicated other studies and was published in MANAGERIAL AND DECISION ECONOMICS:

    The analyses of the General Social Survey data from 1974 to 2000 replicate earlier findings from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth that racial disparity in earnings disappears once cognitive ability is controlled for. The results are robust across many alternative specifications, and further show that blacks receive significantly greater returns to their cognitive ability than nonblacks. The trend data show that there was no sign of racial discrimination in the United States as early as 1970s. The analyses call into question the necessity of and justification for preferential treatment of ethnic minorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Is it black culture? To some extent, it absolutely is. But the next question is how did black culture become what it is today??
    As others in this thread have already observed the cultural origins are found in Africa. What others haven't done is connected the dots, they've wondered how a cultural patterns from different regions of Africa from hundreds of years ago could be replicated in present day African-American culture. The answer is generational transmission. Parents pass on cultural traditions to children. Rinse and repeat.

    White liberals have been trying to transform blacks into black skinned whites for over a century. Black people don't want that - they like their culture, they enjoy it, they're enmeshed within it and don't see anything particularly wrong with it. They don't want to be white people.

  9. #69
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    A lot of it is simply genetics IMO.

    The average Afro-American's IQ is only 85 and that puts them at a significant disadvantage when competing in the job market.

    And another factor is their above average propensity towards violence. Being convicted of a violent crime can certainly shut out economic opportunities. This obviously also has a genetic component to it.

    And there is also immigration and globalization. A lot of manufacturing and agricultural jobs that are suitable for a person with a low IQ are being filled by immigrants or sent overseas. The lack of isolationism and protectionism is particularly hard on the Afro-American community.
    Yeah, that's not racist.

  10. #70
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    Re: The Source of Black Poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yeah, that's not racist.
    You're the one with the problem if you equate reality with racism.

    Evolution denial is such a terrible thing to be proud of.

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