View Poll Results: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

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  • Yes Sir

    29 60.42%
  • No Sir

    14 29.17%
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Thread: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

  1. #71
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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    And MasterCard doesn't pass the cost of fraud onto it's cardholders?
    There's an upper limit to what Mastercard can pass on - the retailer receives a discounted amount of the purchase price of the good and when that discount gets too low, then they no longer have an incentive to take Mastercard rather thabn cash.

    Cash = 100% of item value.
    Mastercard = 96% of item value.
    Mastercard with all fraud costs pushed to retailers = 90% of time value

    At some point between 96% and 90% retailers begin refusing to take Mastercard without imposing a surcharge.

  2. #72
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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    No, I support replacing it with nothing and Medicare for none.
    Glad you are in the 1% and not in the 51% .
    Maybe, in the far future, when we have no more "poor", and are education is no longer "poor" ....and when we DO have a better people....Medicare, ect, can hit the trash piles...
    until then..............

  3. #73
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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    There's an upper limit to what Mastercard can pass on - the retailer receives a discounted amount of the purchase price of the good and when that discount gets too low, then they no longer have an incentive to take Mastercard rather thabn cash.

    Cash = 100% of item value.
    Mastercard = 96% of item value.
    Mastercard with all fraud costs pushed to retailers = 90% of time value

    At some point between 96% and 90% retailers begin refusing to take Mastercard without imposing a surcharge.
    Well...after all of the stuff you listed. When you see up to 30% interest charged to folks...and even the best credit rated cardholders at half that...believe me, cardholders are indeed taking on those type of loses.

  4. #74
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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Glad you are in the 1% and not in the 51% .
    Health care is paid for by all of us. The problem with the current system is that there is no price discipline. If someone else is paying for your health care then you have no incentive to live sensibly, to price shop, nothing. Price of medical services never even enters the minds of consumers. Compare that to shopping for a new TV.

    So if there was no health insurance market for regular health care, then everyone would be paying for their own health care consumption. The money to buy that health care consumption would come from the savings created by not having to pay health insurance premiums.

    The cost of truly expensive health procedures would be paid via catastrophic insurance and this would operate the way all insurance operates - it would cover people for RARE & EXPENSIVE illness events.

    The overall point here is that a typical person SHOULD, over the course of their lifetime, save enough towards health care expenditures so that what they actually end up spending over their lives zeroes out by the time they kick the bucket. We can have mechanisms (overdraft insurance) in place to prevent people running out of savings if they live longer than expected. That's a rational model.

    The irrational model is to spend more on your own healthcare than you provided for over the course of your life.

    Guess which model we're working with these days.

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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    I clearly know more about everything than you.

    1.) The dollar spending is converted to US currency.
    2.) The WHO numbers I quote refer to Government spending while yours combine government, private insurance, plus personal spending. I compared like-to-like.
    3.) My figures are from 2009, not from 2013.


    One - to say you know more about 'everything' then I do obviously a ridiculous statement since you have no idea what I know - so you cannot know how much you may or may not know then I...which should be staggeringly obvious - but apparently not to you.


    Not only can you not get it together to answer my questions in the 'race' thread...you cannot seem to even fathom my post here.

    1) The difference in exchange is only about 10%...hardly worth mentioning.
    2) NO - you are still not getting it. You are quoting ONLY federal transfer payments to the provinces. The federal government has almost ZERO directly to do with healthcare in Canada. It just takes the taxes (both federal and provincial) and then distributes them. These monies are nowhere near sufficient to run provincial healthcare services - which is how Canada's healthcare system operates. It is run on a provincial level - not a federal one. When you go to Ontario. you go to a hospital under Ontario jurisdiction (OHIP) - it's not a federal hospital in ANY WAY. It is owned and operated by the provincial government.
    So to just quote federal spending (which your numbers do) is ridiculous.
    I have lived extensively in both America and Canada...I probably know the Canadian system FAR MORE then you.
    3) So what they are from 4 years earlier? Are you seriously suggesting that Canada's healthcare costs almost doubled in 4 years? Come on now - you cannot be that ignorant.
    Your numbers are only taking federal expenses into account, which - as I have shown - is barely half of health costs per person in Canada.


    It appears you are good at posting charts and stuff...but you appear to be not so good at actually understanding them.

  6. #76
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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    2) NO - you are still not getting it. You are quoting ONLY federal transfer payments to the provinces.
    Your entire argument is a tempest in a teapot of your own creation. You got it into your head that I'm referring to federal transfer payments and I never even made mention of this, in other words, you're completely making up some argument, attributing it to me, and then setting out to refute it.

    Let me help you out - a provincial government is still a government, just like a state government is a government. Government spending is both provincial + federal or state + federal.

    FFS, I gave you the damn link so you could verify any questions that popped into your mind instead of shooting from the hip and making a fool of yourself but apparently you couldn't be bothered to click the link and verify how WHO compiled the data. Here is the exact category title "Per capita government expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$)"

    Here is a different category of spending for 2009 "Per capita total expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$)" US= $7,960 & Canada = $4.519.

    Now watch this - primitive people often believe that what I'm about to do is magic, but it's not really, us sophisticated people know this thing called math - but to people in the dark about math, this looks like magic.

    There is a category labeleld "Private expenditure on health as % of total expenditure on health" and for Canada this amounts to 29.4% of health care spending.

    Here comes the magic, but don't be frightened: We take total spending of $4,519 and multiply by 0.294 and we see that private per capita spending in Canada amounts to $1,328. Next we take total spending of $4,519 and subtract the private spending of $1,328 and this leaves us with $3,191 of government spending. And that's the exact same figure I quoted earlier.

    So like I noted earlier, I seem to know more about everything than you. Take that to the bank.

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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Your entire argument is a tempest in a teapot of your own creation. You got it into your head that I'm referring to federal transfer payments and I never even made mention of this, in other words, you're completely making up some argument, attributing it to me, and then setting out to refute it.

    Let me help you out - a provincial government is still a government, just like a state government is a government. Government spending is both provincial + federal or state + federal.

    FFS, I gave you the damn link so you could verify any questions that popped into your mind instead of shooting from the hip and making a fool of yourself but apparently you couldn't be bothered to click the link and verify how WHO compiled the data. Here is the exact category title "Per capita government expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$)"

    Here is a different category of spending for 2009 "Per capita total expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$)" US= $7,960 & Canada = $4.519.

    Now watch this - primitive people often believe that what I'm about to do is magic, but it's not really, us sophisticated people know this thing called math - but to people in the dark about math, this looks like magic.

    There is a category labeleld "Private expenditure on health as % of total expenditure on health" and for Canada this amounts to 29.4% of health care spending.

    Here comes the magic, but don't be frightened: We take total spending of $4,519 and multiply by 0.294 and we see that private per capita spending in Canada amounts to $1,328. Next we take total spending of $4,519 and subtract the private spending of $1,328 and this leaves us with $3,191 of government spending. And that's the exact same figure I quoted earlier.

    So like I noted earlier, I seem to know more about everything than you. Take that to the bank.


    There you go with that 'you know more about everything' then me schtick...gotta be the most ridiculous and unscientific thing I have read in a while...LOL.


    Forgetting private sources, Canadian governments spent $148 billion in 2013. Divide that by 35 million people leaves you with $4,228 per person...miles off your source (even taking currency differences) and inflation.

    http://www.cihi.ca/CIHI-ext-portal/p...OSHEET_2013_EN

    You were wrong...period.

    I am done with this with you...also I don't even care about this, I just wanted to ask the following...


    NOW ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS FROM YESTERDAY TO YOU...YES OR NO?

    OR ARE YOU GOING TO RUN AWAY AGAIN?
    Last edited by DA60; 04-02-14 at 12:06 AM.

  8. #78
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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    You were wrong...period.
    You really deserve to be called a name here because you're being very dense. You can't quote 2013 figures, pull some ball park population figure out of the air and then tell me that I'm wrong when I quote 2009 figures calculated by WHO and standardized to all nations around the world. If you don't understand this then I'm pained to treat you like an intelligent person because you're not acting like one.

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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You really deserve to be called a name here because you're being very dense. You can't quote 2013 figures, pull some ball park population figure out of the air and then tell me that I'm wrong when I quote 2009 figures calculated by WHO and standardized to all nations around the world. If you don't understand this then I'm pained to treat you like an intelligent person because you're not acting like one.
    So...are you going to answer my questions or not?

    Yes or no?


    You keep running...and I'll probably keep asking.



    Lol...of course you won't answer...just as I thought.
    Last edited by DA60; 04-02-14 at 12:22 AM.

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    Re: Would You Support Replacing PPACA with Medicare for All?

    Medicare for all would bring health care costs more in line with what the rest of the world is paying, which is to say, about half of what we pay in the USA. Make that Medicare a catastrophic care insurance rather than a pre paid health care, and costs would come down even more. Cutting costs has to be the #1 priority for any health care reform, as we can not afford to continue with the current system, ACA or no ACA.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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