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Thread: Should college students be able to unionize?

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    I think I've established my bona fides as a cold-hearted capitalist bastard, but I can't go along with that. Capital has an inherent advantage over labor, especially when we're talking about individuals instead of groups and so this type of arrangement where replacement labor is used to boot out the union labor is just wrong. When you're screwing with people's livelihoods then you get murders of replacement laborers and of management.

    If unions are being totally unreasonable and threatening to bankrupt a corporation then management can relocate, but when it comes to negotiating how to split the wealth created, labor needs to have some leverage to use against capital and unions are, in theory, the best way to do that.
    Wow! We agree on something!

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    You'd be paying them for services rendered is what you'd be doing.
    No you would be paying them for being students, they are already paid
    [
    The coach is making cash,
    The coachis an employee all the professors make money, they don't pay their students.
    people are paying cash to sit in those seats, colleges are selling television rights, those dollars are flowing into the coffers of the school..
    You said all of this before. Why do you think repeating it makes it different. The students get free education. And the money made isn't theirs.
    Now if the students get together and say, "You know what, that scholarship you gave us worth $X, that's not going to cut it, WE WANT MORE."
    So they are ungrateful greedy little bastards that think they deserve toget paid to attend college.

    Yes, that's legal in AMERICA.
    It's legal for people to sit on their ass and do nothing and get money from the government/us. It's legal for a mother to be to have her fetus terminated in the womb.

    Just cuz it's legal doesn't mean it's right.
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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    The National Labor Relations Board in Chicago has ruled that football players at Northwestern University are employees and can unionize.

    Question is what do you think?
    I think anyone outside extremely sensitive and critical service should be allowed to unionize. You are a human with agency you should be allowed to engage in collective and collaborative activity with anyone you wish. The real question is whether or not the extensive protections that the law grants to recognized unions should be applicable to everyone. I don't know enough about college sports to know if they should qualify under the NLRB. But unofficially? Heck yeah.

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    No you would be paying them for being students, they are already paid
    [The coachis an employee all the professors make money, they don't pay their students.
    You said all of this before. Why do you think repeating it makes it different. The students get free education. And the money made isn't theirs.
    So they are ungrateful greedy little bastards that think they deserve toget paid to attend college.

    It's legal for people to sit on their ass and do nothing and get money from the government/us. It's legal for a mother to be to have her fetus terminated in the womb.

    Just cuz it's legal doesn't mean it's right.

    This ruling makes me wonder. Since it appears one of the factors the NLRB considered was the scholarship provided in return for attendance, etc., wouldn't it also follow that every student receiving a scholarship would be viewed in the same light?

    Obviously at student receiving a scholarship is expected to do something positive for the school. A football player is expected to play football, etc., a physics student is expected to study physics.

    Shouldn't English Majors receiving scholarships be allowed to unionize? How about Gender Studies majors?

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    No you would be paying them for being students, they are already paid
    [The coachis an employee all the professors make money, they don't pay their students.
    You said all of this before. Why do you think repeating it makes it different. The students get free education. And the money made isn't theirs.
    So they are ungrateful greedy little bastards that think they deserve toget paid to attend college.

    It's legal for people to sit on their ass and do nothing and get money from the government/us. It's legal for a mother to be to have her fetus terminated in the womb.

    Just cuz it's legal doesn't mean it's right.
    Why wouldn't it be legal or right? They have a highly sought after talent that the University desires and they want to maximize the reward they get for exercising that skill or talent. At the moment it seems to me like its a mutually beneficial relationship but one side benefits quite a bit more.*

    *Disclaimer: I know very little about sports. This is based on a cursory review of a few articles on the matter.

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    This ruling makes me wonder. Since it appears one of the factors the NLRB considered was the scholarship provided in return for attendance, etc., wouldn't it also follow that every student receiving a scholarship would be viewed in the same light?

    Obviously at student receiving a scholarship is expected to do something positive for the school. A football player is expected to play football, etc., a physics student is expected to study physics.

    Shouldn't English Majors receiving scholarships be allowed to unionize? How about Gender Studies majors?
    I mean... that isn't without precedent. Student unions get their name from the actual student unions/guilds of the early colleges and universities of the late medieval ages and lasted quite a long while. They exerted great power over professors and school administration, this was of course when a professor was usually on contract directly to his class not employed by a board of trustees (the University). I imagine the greatest impediment to English major scholarship students unionizing is the much lower value they have for the school when compared to athletes.

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I mean... that isn't without precedent. Student unions get their name from the actual student unions/guilds of the early colleges and universities of the late medieval ages and lasted quite a long while. They exerted great power over professors and school administration, this was of course when a professor was usually on contract directly to his class not employed by a board of trustees (the University). I imagine the greatest impediment to English major scholarship students unionizing is the much lower value they have for the school when compared to athletes.
    Good point about the student union.

    As to English majors unionizing, if it's about value, where is the cut off? Doesn't the school view the English major receiving a scholarship as providing a value? Isn't that why the scholarship was provided?

    Frankly, I see an issue with scholarships to any student becoming an issue, based on what I understand the NLRB has determined.

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Good point about the student union.

    As to English majors unionizing, if it's about value, where is the cut off? Doesn't the school view the English major receiving a scholarship as providing a value? Isn't that why the scholarship was provided?

    Frankly, I see an issue with scholarships to any student becoming an issue, based on what I understand the NLRB has determined.
    This is why I think the NLRB/special legal protections for unions complicates things so much. In a more perfect market environment it wouldn't matter because the students would organize and the University would either be willing to negotiate or able to ignore them, or their collective value would be enough to bring them to the table to bargain. People could push as hard as they wanted to get what they wanted, it would just be contingent on how valuable they are to the people they are negotiating with.

    That being said I understand why you probably need something like an NLRB but it makes organic tests of these sorts of things impossible.

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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    This ruling makes me wonder. Since it appears one of the factors the NLRB considered was the scholarship provided in return for attendance, etc., wouldn't it also follow that every student receiving a scholarship would be viewed in the same light?

    Obviously at student receiving a scholarship is expected to do something positive for the school. A football player is expected to play football, etc., a physics student is expected to study physics.

    Shouldn't English Majors receiving scholarships be allowed to unionize? How about Gender Studies majors?
    everybody is allowed to unionize. But going Crum consumer to employee I think is not appropriate.

    Students are consumers of college services.
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    Re: Should college students be able to unionize?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    everybody is allowed to unionize. But going Crum consumer to employee I think is not appropriate.

    Students are consumers of college services.
    I agree. I fail to see where the NLRB is going with their ruling. Let me rephrase that, very little the NLRB does surprises me, but this does.

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