View Poll Results: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016?

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Thread: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016?

  1. #81
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    You're SO CLOSE to being right here that it almost pains me to point out where you're wrong. Your mistake, and the mistake of a great deal of people when it comes to Federal Spending is to misread Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. All too many people see "General Welfare and Common Defense" and fail to understand that the 18 specific items listed below it are the definition of what "General Welfare and Common Defense" means. Therefore, regardless of the "benefit of the republic", if it isn't in that list is it not a legitimate expenditure. Therefore all Energy, Education, Social Welfare, Health Care, Disaster Relief, Foreign Aid, and many, many other things this nation spends insane amounts of money on are not legitimate expenditures.



    It has everything to do with the Social Conservative agenda of "Don't make me pay to support a worthless waste of flesh and oxygen. Don't make me pay to educate kids I don't have. Don't make me pay to heal morons who don't deserve to live in the first place. Etc....."
    I think we're operating with different definitions of "social conservative". To me, it refers to the government making decisions for individuals, and not to the government paying for things that individuals need to pay for themselves, i.e., welfare state. There is nothing conservative about the welfare state.

    and the government does need to be limited to Constitutional mandates, yes, but it does not need to be spending money on things that aren't of benefit to the republic, i.e., bailing out "too big to fail" entities, subsidizing unprofitable enterprises, etc.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #82
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Which is why I prefer not to go out any more than absolutely necessary.
    Do you remember the movie...The Omega Man.



    Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016?-omega_man_-1971-1-jpg


  3. #83
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Yes they do, just as I have the right to make sure that every gun owner in Worcester County knows that they should not be frequenting that place.
    Except that isn't how you think, Tigger. You don't simply think your ethics should be promoted voluntarily... they need to be enforced through the iron fist of the law.


    That's your business, not mine.
    No, in your mind, my business should ALWAYS be the State's business.

    Not really. If you're not willing to vociferously espouse your convictions and principles both in how you live and what you say, then do you really believe in them?
    Maybe because if I believe in the nonaggression principle, then enforcing that view through violence is sort of an oxymoron?

    Show me what a man will kill or die for and I'll show you what he believe in. Show me what he will not kill or die for and I'll show you what he doesn't really care about at all.
    I don't think you really have any clue what anyone is willing to fight and die for. At the same time, just because I'm a man of faith does not mean I'm going to kill someone who doesn't follow my faith.


    Believing steadfastly in something that is Wrong is not a Principle, Geoist.
    Well, in that case you have no principles because you are clearly wrong in your 'ethics.'

    It's a sign of insanity.
    Like your belief that no woman should work.

    At lesat two or three of those specifically listed items can have an effect on others.
    Of course they have an effect on others. We don't live in bubbles.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  4. #84
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well first, note that I specifically suggested that experience as a CEO or COO would not, imho, be direct experience but indirect to the specific job of the POTUS.
    In the past few years, generally speaking, with CEO's and COO's having been in trouble with the feds, and having that type of experience of how to try to circumvent laws, and breaking laws, no thanks, I wouldn't want someone chosen as our president who knows how to milk and bilk the banking system, who have left shareholders holding the bag, which are basically white collar criminals. Don't we believe that we've seen and had enough of this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Second, the sincerity of your argument somewhat comes into question based on the seeming underlining message based on your words. Your inclusion of millionaire and billionaire (not jobs) mixed in with actual job titles, and your inclusion of Romney as an example of someone whose experience is this is question. It ignores that Romney had what most experts suggest is the closest directly relevant experience to POTUS...being the Chief Executive of a Governmental Entity on the state level, IE Governor.
    My sincerity comes into question? By whom, you? And who might you be to judge someones sincerity after all we've seen of crooked CEO', COO's and lousy politicians? Who are you to question the sincerity of someone you do not know? By hinging your belief upon a few words which were typed? You seem to pass judgement pretty damned quick on someone you do not know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Third, I can't help but notice you avoided completely answering the question as to whether or not this seeming standard you are suggesting applies to all jobs, or if you simply have this strange mentality when it comes to the President and the President alone.
    I would expect condescension from another conservative, but from a conservative moderator at that?
    I believe some sort of litmus test should be administered to any candidate for a job, employment or politics. Experience for a job is good, but what kind of experience a person has for a certain type of job is what matters. If we're going to seek people for the office of POTUS, we should at least be comforted in knowing that the person running for office has at least some experience with US Laws, and at least knows our constitutional laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Fourth, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between talking about qualities or experiences you prefer in a Presidential candidate and qualities and experiences that directly relate as "Experience" to the speciifc job duties of a Presidency.
    Everyone's preferences are different, those I mentioned are just a few or a couple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I may PREFER that a President has some experience in a private sector company, specifically a small business. However, simply because I'd PREFER they have that experience doesn't mean I'm arrogant enough to believe my preference directly means that's the most applicable experience to being a President. I may PREFER that a President be a historical scholar with a deep understanding of the views and ideas of the Founders. But I'm not going to sit here and try to suggest a Historical Scholar has the better resume of experience speficially related to the task of being President than a Govenor. That doesn't mean I don't think the Historian may not make a better president...experience alone doesn't determine that...but it does mean I'm not egotistical enough to think that simply because I prefer something that magically means it has direct experience.

    Being the Chief Executive of a State Government is directly related experience to the specific duties of being a Chief Executive of the Federal Government.

    Being a Constitutional Laywer may relate to certain aspects of a POTUS's job, but it's not direct experience relating specifically to the day to day duties, responsabilities, and expectations of the job.

    It's perfectly reasonable, in theory, to not like someone with a ton of corporate experience to be President (Just like it's perfectly reasonable, in theory, to not like someone whose never or rarely worked in a traditional private sector job to be POTUS). It's even perfectly reasonable to suggest that such a factor outweighs actual job related experience the person has. But it's just not a logical argument to suggest that the only direct type of experience for POTUS is being POTUS, and every other form of experience is somehow on equal footing.
    I would prefer someone who doesn't know how to use our legal system for personal or political game or gain. I mentioned Romney because of his corporate track record of putting people out of work. By the purchase or overtaking of companies on the ropes, he is not a venture capitalist, he is more of a vulture capitalist. His past political experience is well noted, which why some people viewed him as an insider. Do we need a millionaire who has used the system for his benefit, and his political experience for the benefit of corporate America? I think not.

  5. #85
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Do you remember the movie...The Omega Man.
    I've never seen it Texas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Except that isn't how you think, Tigger. You don't simply think your ethics should be promoted voluntarily... they need to be enforced through the iron fist of the law.
    Not really. People are free to believe whatever they want. I just think they should be forced to do it from other countries.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    No, in your mind, my business should ALWAYS be the State's business.
    Only when your business violates the Morals, Values, and Standards of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Maybe because if I believe in the nonaggression principle, then enforcing that view through violence is sort of an oxymoron?
    There's a term for those who believe in no -aggression. I believe it's Victim. Or was that Prey?


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I don't think you really have any clue what anyone is willing to fight and die for. At the same time, just because I'm a man of faith does not mean I'm going to kill someone who doesn't follow my faith.
    I know it's not.much. Then I have no use for that type of faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Of course they have an effect on others. We don't live in bubbles.
    Then they sbould.be required to follow an accepted set of Morals and Values.

  6. #86
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    In public places, those were two easy examples. There are a ton of private businesses that I avoid like the plague for any number of reasons including (but not limited to)... the gender and sexual preferences of their employees/owners, their lack of security, the company's whose products they sell, etc....
    Gender? So the feminine shouldn't work?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    As someone who believes in personal self-defense, simply not paying attention to everyone and everything around me is not an option. That's why I don't go out as much as many other people do. I can't both maintain situational awareness and keep my stomach from tying itself in knots.
    I take great pleasure that free people doing well and expressing love for each other makes a dinosaur like you nauseated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No, not prison. The morgue. Much more effective that way.
    Death to all homosexuals is it? You've gone from "Aww my cute racist old grandma, she's from another time..." to a downright domestic threat to the lives of innocent citizens. I am so glad people like you are not long for this world; This world belongs to the living.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  7. #87
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    I am so glad people like you are not long for this world; This world belongs to the living.
    The Biblical passage, "The meek shall inherit the Earth" gives me comfort in that.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    I go to bed every night praying that Hillary won't run (not really, I'm an atheist, but you get the point). The last thing America needs is another 4-8 years of the status quo.

  9. #89
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire X View Post
    I go to bed every night praying that Hillary won't run (not really, I'm an atheist, but you get the point). The last thing America needs is another 4-8 years of the status quo.
    I completely agree with that, but... I think that's what we'll get regardless who is elected.

    There will be some nuanced differences between one person or another, but for the most part it'll just be more of the same.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #90
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I completely agree with that, but... I think that's what we'll get regardless who is elected.

    There will be some nuanced differences between one person or another, but for the most part it'll just be more of the same.
    Exactly, and that is true regardless of whether the new POTUS has an R or a D after his/her name.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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