View Poll Results: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016?

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Thread: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016?

  1. #41
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016?

    Dems or Reps?

    They both have the potential to be wide-open, with no incumbents.
    It will be the republicans hands down. That is unless Hillary declares she isn't running and if that happens, the Democrats will be wide open.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Please name one person elected as POTUS that had past "experience" at being POTUS. I can think of none.
    Silly question.

    People rarely move between jobs at the same level of seniority or responsibility. People move up, and are selected to do so on the basis of how they have performed in lesser, but comparable tasks. So, what kind of prior experience might be relevant for an aspiring POTUS? Governor of a state? Cabinet minister? VPOTUS? Mayor of a major city? I'd argue that any of those things would provide a better grounding in the job than spending just 3 years in the Senate, and 7 in the state senate. Can you think of another president with less relevant experience?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    We'll never get to know what Santorum would or wouldn't have done against Obama. The Libertarians are simply part of the Centrist/Establishment GOP.
    I guess that's why Ron Paul got so much establishment support for his candidacies.

    They are NOT Conservatives and never will be.
    Who said they were?

    What the last two Presidenetial election cycles should be showing the GOP is that Conservative Republicans and those of us in the Independent Right-Wing are NOT going to support a Centrist/Liberal Republican on the national stage. Nor can they count on cross-over Democrats or Centrist Independents to make up for that loss. Is the GOP really stupid enough to make that mistake three cycles in a row?
    Are they really stupid enough to put up a fruit loop like a Palin or a Santorum against a credible centrist like Hillary, and when more credible GOP centrists like Christie (maybe not now, but who knows?) or Huntsman are available.

    What those of you on the 'independent' (far) right-wing can't get your heads around is that, just like here at DP, even naturally right-leaning, moderate conservatives are appalled at the possibility of people as extreme as you being involved in government.

    Heading off on the far-right, authoritarian, religious track may indeed guarantee the GOP shores up its appeal to the solid right-wing heartland. Unfortunately for them, that will never comprise a workable majority and will ensure a centrist Dem can hoover up all of the left, centre, and centre-right, assuring a Dem POTUS for the foreseeable future. Your call.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I guess that's why Ron Paul got so much establishment support for his candidacies.
    Paul is much more a Centrist than a Conservative. In reality, like all Centrists he's really a Liberal at heart (hence the LIBERALtarian Party name).

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Are they really stupid enough to put up a fruit loop like a Palin or a Santorum against a credible centrist like Hillary, and when more credible GOP centrists like Christie (maybe not now, but who knows?) or Huntsman are available.
    That's going to interesting to see. Palin is a non-starter for the entire party. What the GOP needs to understand is that they cannot Out-Centrist the Democratic Party. It's not going to work. They're not going to attract Centrist Independents and they are most certainly not gong to attract Centrist Democrats to vote for a GOP candidate. Therefore, running a Centrist simply ensures that neither end of the group they're looking at (centrists or right wingers) are going to vote for them, and they will lose BADLY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    What those of you on the 'independent' (far) right-wing can't get your heads around is that, just like here at DP, even naturally right-leaning, moderate conservatives are appalled at the possibility of people as extreme as you being involved in government.
    Then they should go and join the Democratic Party, where they truly belong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Heading off on the far-right, authoritarian, religious track may indeed guarantee the GOP shores up its appeal to the solid right-wing heartland. Unfortunately for them, that will never comprise a workable majority and will ensure a centrist Dem can hoover up all of the left, centre, and centre-right, assuring a Dem POTUS for the foreseeable future. Your call.
    A Centrist/Liberal Democrat or Republican getting elected are essentially the same thing. Honestly, I prefer Barrack Obama over either of the past two Presidential electsions. At least he's HONEST about being a worthless piece of Liberal/Socialist ****, instead of the dishonest Liberal ****s McCain and Romney.

  5. #45
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    The GOP. It has so much more meaning. If Ted Cruz does poorly or has to drop out mid way, that will decimate the TP/ultra conservative narrative.


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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Please name one person elected as POTUS that had past "experience" at being POTUS. I can think of none.
    So if you wre hiring a Senior Programer for your software company, the only people with "experience" would be other "senior programers". Someone who was just a "Programer" would have as much "experience" as a fry cook at McDonalds to you, because both didn't have past "experience" specfically being a "Senior Programer"?

    If you were looking for an Executive Chef, a person who was previously a Sous-Chef would have as much "experience" in your eyes as a bus driver?

    If you were looknig for a CEO of Fortune 500 company, the COO of another fortune 500 company would have as much "experience" as the manager at the local Staples?

    From a political science stand point, it's long been established that the President of the United States serves as two primary job roles...

    Chief Executive of the Federal Government and Commander-in-Chief of the United States Military. As such, when speaking of experience, it are those two aspects of the job that it most commonly relates.

    When speaking about DIRECT experience for those two jobs, you're looking at two primary things:

    In terms of being Chief Executive of a Governmental Body, the next "tier down" same type experience is that of a Governorship. A step down from there would be a Mayoral role, with differing weight given to the complexity of the location being governed (For example, a governor of New York is likely to be looked at in experience typically closer to a Governor, where as the Mayor of Roanoke Virginia would likely be laughed off stage). Alongside this would be experience as the Vice President, which would slide in right above "governor" in terms of levels of experience.

    In terms of being Commander-in-Chief, the next "tier down" same type experience is that of a Generalship. From there you take additional steps down through the various ranks of the military. We've seen in our countries history times where the experience lending itself to CIC has been more important to the voting population than that of the Chief Executive. However, of the two, CIC experience is generally more rare when it comes to the primary experience for the job.

    Following DIRECT experience, you have indirect. This would be experience that reasonable and understandably relates to the job, but is not DIRECTLY in line with what it does. And even then, there's different levels.

    This would be things like acting as an executive or chief executive over a sizable business or entity, with it's impact on experience varying by size and scope. This would be things like functioning as a Senator (given more weight) or Representative (given less weight) at the federal level. Being a member of a Presidents cabinet, or a little less valued being the head of an executive agency. Having been enlisted, but not in any sort of command position, within the military. Etc.

    These are things that have some tie to the position of POTUS but aren't direct analogs simply at a lower level (executive, but not government. Government, but not executive. Cabinet but not Executive, Military, but not commander).

    Finally, you have supporting experience. Things that don't DIRECTLY or even Indirectly give specific experience for the two avenues of the job, but which can concievably provide some bonus or insight that could potentially relate. Running a private business, being a doctor or lawyer, being a scholar on certain issues, etc.

    When it comes to experience as it's traditionally weighted and viewed from a political science mentality, it's simply not a realistic argument to suggest that Barack Obama was, at the very least, one of the five most inexperienced men ever to win the Presidency. Admitting that doesn't inherently suggest that he is or would be a bad president (Case in Point, Abraham Lincoln was arguably the LEAST experienced of all time). However, denying it in a hopes of propping him up is laughable.

    When it comes to DIRECT experience, he had none. When it comes to significant secondary experience of any kind of he essentially had 2 years of being a Senator and that's it. The closest one to him in the past century would probably be Hoover, who had seven years as an executive cabinet memer as secretary of commerce. Obama, Kennedy, and Hoover are the only people without DIRECT experience in the past century, and both Hoover and Kennedy had more indirect amount of experience than Obama.

  7. #47
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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    The Republicans need to find a candidate who has a track record of fiscal responsibility and is not invested in the authoritarian "social conservative" agenda... what's that? Not a Republican? Such a candidate would be a libertarian instead?

    Well, then, let's just bypass the authoritarian right and the statist left and vote libertarian.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The Republicans need to find a candidate who has a track record of fiscal responsibility and is not invested in the authoritarian "social conservative" agenda... what's that? Not a Republican? Such a candidate would be a libertarian instead?

    Well, then, let's just bypass the authoritarian right and the statist left and vote libertarian.
    I don't know what that candidate would be called, other than a hypocritical moron, since true Fiscal Responsibilty STEMS FROM Social Conservatism, but what I do know is that they would be as unelectable as I am. That candidate would find themselves without any large party to support them, and trying to carve a majority out of the middle of a highly volatile divided political spectrum. I do not believe that a Libertarian candidate, even with money and media attention equal to the Republicans and Democrats can carve away enough of that "center" to win a Presidential election.

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I don't know what that candidate would be called, other than a hypocritical moron, since true Fiscal Responsibilty STEMS FROM Social Conservatism, but what I do know is that they would be as unelectable as I am. That candidate would find themselves without any large party to support them, and trying to carve a majority out of the middle of a highly volatile divided political spectrum. I do not believe that a Libertarian candidate, even with money and media attention equal to the Republicans and Democrats can carve away enough of that "center" to win a Presidential election.
    Fiscal responsibility stems from an understanding that government needs to be limited and should not be spending money it does not have on things that do not benefit the republic. It has nothing to do with the "social conservative" agenda of the government deciding when and whether a woman must carry a fetus to term, who may or may not marry, and what is and isn't legal for adults to ingest. Limited government means individual liberty and responsibility.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Which Presidential primary race do you think will be the most interesting in 2016

    Republican primaries are always good for a laugh.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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