View Poll Results: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

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  • Yes, it was a coup

    16 47.06%
  • No, it was not a coup

    14 41.18%
  • Other

    4 11.76%
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Thread: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

  1. #51
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    In general, I would agree with you. But, I think the reason why I would, is on account of longevity. That is to say, In the analogous cases you specify, the borders of the respective nations are long established, and the mutual responsibilities of the people so intertwined that the unravelling of the relationship is not simple. A longstanding entanglement has more legitimacy than one of short duration.

    When you look honestly at the history of Crimea, it does seem odd that they ever went with Ukraine in the first place. Trust me, I have no love for Russia or Putin, but his assertions pertaining to Crimea have more than a veneer of legitimacy, to my mind, even if they lack legal legitimacy.

    Now, from a strictly strategic standpoint, I think maybe we should make Russia pay as much as we can for their actions, without causing ourselves too much pain. I believe this simply because I do think Russia is horrible, and we have a veneer of legitimacy due to international laws, even if long standing tradition is not on our side.

    Yet when I look at the broader picture, it would be nice to be able to side with the Tibetans and Taiwan against China. Surely, China will cite our ardent political defense of Ukraine as precedent for asking our equal support of their claims, should it ever come to it. Oh what a tangled web we weave...
    I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said, but if a "province" can simply split off from a "nation", as some have suggested, solely on the vote of the majority of that province based on their heritage and first language and culture, etc., what's to stop such a vote in California, one day soon, to secede from the United States and join with Mexico? It won't be long before latinos of Mexican and other Central and Southern American anchestry are the majority population there. Surely the nation itself should make rules and requirements for such a move and for it to be legitimate those rules must be followed. I have no problem with Crimea "self-determining" that they wish to join with the Russian Federation - I do have a problem with how it's been done and now how it's being enforced.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #52
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Konig View Post
    Which Ukrainians are they taking prisoner? The vote was 95%+ in favour of joining Russia. Furthermore, the U.S., I thought, never cooperated with coup governments and is supposed to not encourage the violation of the democratic process? If I was an American, I would be worried when my government displays such hypocrisy...



    Except that Russians are a majority in the Crimea, so it's not even remotely comparable. The Baltic states are members of the EU, so your scenario is just so improbable. The Baltic states have moved away from Russia, Ukraine was in the process of moving towards Russia; they elected a pro-Kremlin president, afterall. You should brush up your European geopolitics a bit, I say.
    The claim that 95% voted to join Russia is ludicrous. Rather, you are just declaring your total blind loyalty to Putin and whatever he says you declare as fact as if words from God.

  3. #53
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    When they have enough power.

    Any more questions?
    Well, they seem to have miscalculated in this case, to judge by their high-pitched squealing!

  4. #54
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The claim that 95% voted to join Russia is ludicrous.
    Rather, you are just declaring your total blind loyalty to Putin and whatever he says you declare as fact as if words from God.



    In Russia whatever Putin says has the same authority that it would have if God Herself had said it.

  5. #55
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Under what circumstances a foreign-backed minority can overthrow an elected government?
    That also including what various types of influence are legitimate. In a case, where tens of thousands of people are out in the streets it would seem a good idea to regulate procedures how to keep security and peace independent of the evil influence from abroad.

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