View Poll Results: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

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  • Yes, it was a coup

    16 47.06%
  • No, it was not a coup

    14 41.18%
  • Other

    4 11.76%
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Thread: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

  1. #41
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post

    You obviously favor discrimination and "relocation" of Tartar Crimeans so ethnic Russians can again take their land - just as Stalin did.
    Where did I say that?

    The rest of your post is nonsense, not grounded in reality or anything I've typed. Why would the new right-wing Kiev government be any better for the Tartars? They'll be discriminated against under either regime, what do you propose be done?

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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Konig View Post
    Have you not heard of Svoboda?



    And yet I'm bitterly anti-Soviet, anti-communist. Although propaganda is rampant on both sides, I believe that it can be viewed objectively that ethnic Russians are at danger under the new Kiev regime. The U.S. has no right whatsoever to interfere: not only is its interference violating its policy of not interacting and supporting coup governments, but it is completely contradicting its supposed "bastion of freedom and democracy" foreign policy.
    For somebody who is supposedly 'bitterly anti-Soviet', you seem not to have much of a problem in supporting the new Soviet Union - Russia. Odd that the U.S. has no right - according to you - to even express an opinion in support of Ukraine, yet you have no problem with Russian troops invading the country and taking Ukrainians prisoner. This is just step one in re-asserting the new 'Greater Russia'. Once the Ukraine is taken care of, we can expect Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia to suddenly be guilty of 'oppressing the Russian minority', which will call for Russian intervention to protect them.

    But I suspect that won't bother you much.
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    What's more is that the Ukrainian interim president vetoed laws that would have diminished Russian as a regional language status.

    Yeah, they're really just like the Nazis, huh?
    This is the new refrain of the Euro-lefties - that Ukraine is the new Nazi threat and those peace-loving Russians ought to be thanked for invading them. This, of course, is a tactic older than dirt.
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Odd that the U.S. has no right - according to you - to even express an opinion in support of Ukraine, yet you have no problem with Russian troops invading the country and taking Ukrainians prisoner.
    Which Ukrainians are they taking prisoner? The vote was 95%+ in favour of joining Russia. Furthermore, the U.S., I thought, never cooperated with coup governments and is supposed to not encourage the violation of the democratic process? If I was an American, I would be worried when my government displays such hypocrisy...

    This is just step one in re-asserting the new 'Greater Russia'. Once the Ukraine is taken care of, we can expect Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia to suddenly be guilty of 'oppressing the Russian minority', which will call for Russian intervention to protect them.
    Except that Russians are a majority in the Crimea, so it's not even remotely comparable. The Baltic states are members of the EU, so your scenario is just so improbable. The Baltic states have moved away from Russia, Ukraine was in the process of moving towards Russia; they elected a pro-Kremlin president, afterall. You should brush up your European geopolitics a bit, I say.

  5. #45
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    No. It was a popular uprising against a fairly unpopular leader in his own country. Was it "illegal"? Im gonna guess, by the Constitution of the Ukrainian state, it probably way. But when i think of coup i think of a small minority of the country (such as the military) forcefully taking a leader out. This seemed to be to be in-fact, popular uprising against a corrupt leader.


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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    The whole Crimean crisis has its roots in the ouster of former Ukrainian President Yanukovych. The Ukrainian parliament, with the support of Yanukovych's old Party of Regions, voted to impeach Yanukovych. They had a majority, but not the strict percentage (75%) required by the Ukrainian constitution to impeach their president. Nevertheless, they made motions to replace Yanukovych, motions which were accelerated by his fleeing the country into Russia.

    Was this removal of an elected official an illegitimate coup, or was it a revolution that was acceptable given the circumstances?
    Honestly, IMO only time will tell if it was a coup or a revolution. I say that because there is a possibility that non-Ukrainian elements were involved and the wider general population is just unaware of it at this time.

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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Konig View Post
    Ukraine was in the process of moving towards Russia; they elected a pro-Kremlin president, afterall. You should brush up your European geopolitics a bit, I say.
    You should brush up on your Ukrainian politics quite a bit.

    Yanukovych was elected because he politically spammed the people. Throughout his campaign in running for president, he promised the people of Ukraine that he would orient Ukraine towards the West and apply to join the European Union. He maintained this pretense all during his presidency, traveling to Brussels many times to schmooze with EU officials and sign pre-agreement documents.

    But as showtime approached at Vilnius, in the last hour before he was to sign the EU Association Agreement, he did a total 180° flip and refused to fulfill his promise to the Ukrainian people. Not only did renege on his promises to orient Ukraine towards the West, he then began having secret meetings with Putin to join Russia's Customs Union. Exactly the opposite of his political promises and the people's expectations.

    Finally realizing they had been bamboozled all along by a lying-corrupt-to-the-core-con-man, the protests at Maidan began.

  8. #48
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    The whole Crimean crisis has its roots in the ouster of former Ukrainian President Yanukovych. The Ukrainian parliament, with the support of Yanukovych's old Party of Regions, voted to impeach Yanukovych. They had a majority, but not the strict percentage (75%) required by the Ukrainian constitution to impeach their president. Nevertheless, they made motions to replace Yanukovych, motions which were accelerated by his fleeing the country into Russia.

    Was this removal of an elected official an illegitimate coup, or was it a revolution that was acceptable given the circumstances?





    Was the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi a coup?

    After you figure it all out, come back and tell us all about it.

  9. #49
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Under what circumstances a foreign-backed minority can overthrow an elected government?



    When they have enough power.

    Any more questions?

  10. #50
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    Re: Was the overthrow of Yanukovych a coup?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    We can agree to disagree on who did what, when and how, but I hope we can agree that in a sovereign nation, where constitutional rules are in place governing such things as secession, it would be up to the central government, not a province, to sanction and authorize as legal such a vote and not the province itself. The very fact that Russia recognized the vote as legal and moved to legalize Crimea becoming part of the Russian federation would or should indicate that Russia did plenty wrong.

    Here in Canada, we're used to discussions by separatists in the province of Quebec - we have very specific legislation as well as Supreme Court rulings on what constitutes a legal vote to secede. I presume Ukraine has the same. Perhaps your home country of Denmark, likewise. How would you feel if the island on which Copenhagen rests decided to secede and join Sweden without any approval or sanction of such a move by the rest of Denmark? Likewise, in the US, if Texas as an example voted to secede, the federal government would not allow them to do so on their own initiative - the republic would determine the outcome. Why should that principle be any different in Ukraine?
    In general, I would agree with you. But, I think the reason why I would, is on account of longevity. That is to say, In the analogous cases you specify, the borders of the respective nations are long established, and the mutual responsibilities of the people so intertwined that the unravelling of the relationship is not simple. A longstanding entanglement has more legitimacy than one of short duration.

    When you look honestly at the history of Crimea, it does seem odd that they ever went with Ukraine in the first place. Trust me, I have no love for Russia or Putin, but his assertions pertaining to Crimea have more than a veneer of legitimacy, to my mind, even if they lack legal legitimacy.

    Now, from a strictly strategic standpoint, I think maybe we should make Russia pay as much as we can for their actions, without causing ourselves too much pain. I believe this simply because I do think Russia is horrible, and we have a veneer of legitimacy due to international laws, even if long standing tradition is not on our side.

    Yet when I look at the broader picture, it would be nice to be able to side with the Tibetans and Taiwan against China. Surely, China will cite our ardent political defense of Ukraine as precedent for asking our equal support of their claims, should it ever come to it. Oh what a tangled web we weave...
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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