View Poll Results: Is Tor Good or Bad Safe or Dangerous?

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Thread: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

  1. #1
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    Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Please explain why you feel the way you do.

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    TOR is designed or rather, was designed, by US intelligence services to be serviced by spooks.

    So it's not that it's good or bad or safe/unsafe, but it unsafe in that it makes you think you're safe... when in fact, for most day to day operations, you're not. I'm imagining you're not planning to surf the deep web, so for normal things you do on the internet, commenting on DP, watching youtube, reading reddit, checking the news... what do you need TOR for? You still log into DP with your account and somewhere, in the log, when you logged into DP without using TOR, there is your IP next to your account name... so what's the point.

    All in all, it's stupid. There is no such thing as secrecy on the internet or anonimity, only on a superficial level.

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    TOR is designed or rather, was designed, by US intelligence services to be serviced by spooks.

    So it's not that it's good or bad or safe/unsafe, but it unsafe in that it makes you think you're safe... when in fact, for most day to day operations, you're not. I'm imagining you're not planning to surf the deep web, so for normal things you do on the internet, commenting on DP, watching youtube, reading reddit, checking the news... what do you need TOR for? You still log into DP with your account and somewhere, in the log, when you logged into DP without using TOR, there is your IP next to your account name... so what's the point.

    All in all, it's stupid. There is no such thing as secrecy on the internet or anonimity, only on a superficial level.
    You ask a lot of questions... Yes, lets say I'm trying to surf the deep web...

    No, playing with you kids in the sandbox or reading Drudge wasn't a thought.

    you make a good point with the IP/account previous exposure though...
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    You ask a lot of questions... Yes, lets say I'm trying to surf the deep web...

    No, playing with you kids in the sandbox or reading Drudge wasn't a thought.

    you make a good point with the IP/account previous exposure though...
    ok, but there's nothing there for good people. You have like... what... half a million websites on the deep web, most of them hubs for drug dealers or pornographers or people hiring hitmen or whatever... some offering instructions on how to build a bomb. It's used by jihadi terrorists, drug lords, oligarchs, dark hat hackers, criminals of all kinds and also agents of various intelligence services of many countries. There is no reason to go there.

    Do you know how TOR works? Or how the internet works? Then you know why it's not safe. When you are using the TOR network, you're ok, you're safe, nobody can track you where you are on the web unless you tell them. Like, if you are using TOR and then logging into youtube with your gmail account... that's kinda a dead giveaway. But if you don't do that, nobody can know what sites you're looking at. But, I don't need to, if I am the big bad agent. I am just looking at your IP and seeing that at time 18:21 you logged into TOR and then I lost you. So all I have to do is write your name in the bad boys list and some people will look into you. You'll be monitored, investigated, secretly or less so... and if it turns out you're just some guy who heard about this stuff and wanted to give it a go, then it's all fine... if not, you're targetted. So it's stupid. Don't go to TOR.

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    ok, but there's nothing there for good people. You have like... what... half a million websites on the deep web, most of them hubs for drug dealers or pornographers or people hiring hitmen or whatever... some offering instructions on how to build a bomb. It's used by jihadi terrorists, drug lords, oligarchs, dark hat hackers, criminals of all kinds and also agents of various intelligence services of many countries. There is no reason to go there.

    Do you know how TOR works? Or how the internet works? Then you know why it's not safe. When you are using the TOR network, you're ok, you're safe, nobody can track you where you are on the web unless you tell them. Like, if you are using TOR and then logging into youtube with your gmail account... that's kinda a dead giveaway. But if you don't do that, nobody can know what sites you're looking at. But, I don't need to, if I am the big bad agent. I am just looking at your IP and seeing that at time 18:21 you logged into TOR and then I lost you. So all I have to do is write your name in the bad boys list and some people will look into you. You'll be monitored, investigated, secretly or less so... and if it turns out you're just some guy who heard about this stuff and wanted to give it a go, then it's all fine... if not, you're targetted. So it's stupid. Don't go to TOR.
    All of this is academic curiosity.. What you've warned is as I've figured for the most part but I am an inquisitive fellow... Checked out their site and read a few stories, peaked my interest and as I know some here at good old DP are in the tech sector -- upstanding citizens no doubt(though I have my suspicions about some of you and you know who you be) so I figured I'd throw a line out and learn a little.

    As I said. I've read their site so yeah,I know how it works and all of its wonderful wonderful legitimate uses, I was looking for impartial feedback.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    So I think I wrote a massive comment on this in science and technology subforum a while ago but let me write a few key bits for anyone confused on how the internet or how tracking goes.

    You, me and everyone has an ISP-> internet service provider.
    We all have an IP -> this is like your social security number only for your computer.
    A computer can have multiple IPs depending on what network he's logging into. So say you have 3 ISPs, so 3 internet subscriptions, you have 3 IPs depending on which service you're using.

    So lets work on a hypothetical example. You're Bob and your ISP is named CatCorp and your IP is 121.122.123.124
    oK?

    When you go to chrome or any web browser and type in google.com, your ISP will create a log of that event something like
    Time: 10:12
    Date: 22.03.2014 (yes, European date measuring time because the other kinds are retarded)
    IP: 121.122.123.124
    web addr: google.com

    You want to look at cooking rabbit dishes?
    Time: 10:13
    Date: 22.03.2014
    IP: 121.122.123.124
    addr: rabbitdelight.com

    So if I am the NSA, all I have to do is check that log and I can see what your computer has accessed at each time you accessed something. OK? This data is located on your ISPs servers. So your internet provider, the company you pay for internet, has this data. All of them do. They are required by law to have it.

    If Bob wants to log into TOR.... well then, it says
    time: 21:10
    Date: 22.03.2014
    IP:121.122.123.124
    addr: www.torproject.org

    Oh, what do you know... Bob is up to no good. That's what I would say if I were the NSA... and then I'd flag your IP and put a listening device on your computer and anytime you'd log into something or google something or go somewhere, I'd know because that listening device would tell me, the NSA agent, where you're going. I don't even have to access the ISP logs. And if you're going on TOR regularly... well... that's not very nice of you now is it?

    So dont' go to TOR. It's stupid and it'll only get you into trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    All of this is academic curiosity.. What you've warned is as I've figured for the most part but I am an inquisitive fellow... Checked out their site and read a few stories, peaked my interest and as I know some here at good old DP are in the tech sector -- upstanding citizens no doubt(though I have my suspicions about some of you and you know who you be) so I figured I'd throw a line out and learn a little.

    As I said. I've read their site so yeah,I know how it works and all of its wonderful wonderful legitimate uses, I was looking for impartial feedback.

    ok, well TOR works like a very intricate network... it's not relevant how it works, is that anyone can know when you're logging into it. I, as the NSA, can put a listening device on all outputs from all TOR servers. So I can know how many people, on TOR, have gone to see what websites, i just don't know from what real IPs they did that. So I know what IP goes there, because when you log into TOR, you get a new IP, that changes very often... but your real IP, 121.122.123.124, is completely hidden from me. But if I know that 100 people have logged into TOR, that's all the people that are using TOR now, and I see that 20 went to check out kiddie pr0n and 30 went to see jihadi websites and the rest just checked rabbit recipes or something as they would normally, you don't need TOR for that... I can focus in on the 50 troublemakers because they're the bastards. Ofc, in reality, this is a futile experiment since there are millions who use TOR, i think... i'd guess... idk. but its a safe bet.

    But that's why you have people telling you to use TOR. Because what if it's not 100 people, but 1000 people... and only 50 troublemakers? Well... harder to find isn't it? What if they are 10k people. You have 10k logs showing that 10k people accessed TOR, so you know who accessed it... but you don't know what they're looking for and you're just looking for 50 people. What do you do? Violate the rights of 10k to get the 50? Or not... this is why I don't encourage people to use TOR because it provides a safer net for the scoundrels.
    Last edited by Rainman05; 03-22-14 at 04:33 AM.

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    ok, well TOR works like a very intricate network... it's not relevant how it works, is that anyone can know when you're logging into it. I, as the NSA, can put a listening device on all outputs from all TOR servers. So I can know how many people, on TOR, have gone to see what websites, i just don't know from what real IPs they did that. So I know what IP goes there, because when you log into TOR, you get a new IP, that changes very often... but your real IP, 121.122.123.124, is completely hidden from me. But if I know that 100 people have logged into TOR, that's all the people that are using TOR now, and I see that 20 went to check out kiddie pr0n and 30 went to see jihadi websites and the rest just checked rabbit recipes or something as they would normally, you don't need TOR for that... I can focus in on the 50 troublemakers because they're the bastards. Ofc, in reality, this is a futile experiment since there are millions who use TOR, i think... i'd guess... idk. but its a safe bet.

    But that's why you have people telling you to use TOR. Because what if it's not 100 people, but 1000 people... and only 50 troublemakers? Well... harder to find isn't it? What if they are 10k people. You have 10k logs showing that 10k people accessed TOR, so you know who accessed it... but you don't know what they're looking for and you're just looking for 50 people. What do you do? Violate the rights of 10k to get the 50? Or not... this is why I don't encourage people to use TOR because it provides a safer net for the scoundrels.
    LOL, that was a selling point -- more people more what did they call it, relays, more people more relays. Definitely seemed like come join us flood the system...



    Also said the State Dept. funds them. So....that's a red flag too...
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    So I think I wrote a massive comment on this in science and technology subforum a while ago but let me write a few key bits for anyone confused on how the internet or how tracking goes.

    You, me and everyone has an ISP-> internet service provider.
    We all have an IP -> this is like your social security number only for your computer.
    A computer can have multiple IPs depending on what network he's logging into. So say you have 3 ISPs, so 3 internet subscriptions, you have 3 IPs depending on which service you're using.

    So lets work on a hypothetical example. You're Bob and your ISP is named CatCorp and your IP is 121.122.123.124
    oK?

    When you go to chrome or any web browser and type in google.com, your ISP will create a log of that event something like
    Time: 10:12
    Date: 22.03.2014 (yes, European date measuring time because the other kinds are retarded)
    IP: 121.122.123.124
    web addr: google.com

    You want to look at cooking rabbit dishes?
    Time: 10:13
    Date: 22.03.2014
    IP: 121.122.123.124
    addr: rabbitdelight.com

    So if I am the NSA, all I have to do is check that log and I can see what your computer has accessed at each time you accessed something. OK? This data is located on your ISPs servers. So your internet provider, the company you pay for internet, has this data. All of them do. They are required by law to have it.

    If Bob wants to log into TOR.... well then, it says
    time: 21:10
    Date: 22.03.2014
    IP:121.122.123.124
    addr: www.torproject.org

    Oh, what do you know... Bob is up to no good. That's what I would say if I were the NSA... and then I'd flag your IP and put a listening device on your computer and anytime you'd log into something or google something or go somewhere, I'd know because that listening device would tell me, the NSA agent, where you're going. I don't even have to access the ISP logs. And if you're going on TOR regularly... well... that's not very nice of you now is it?

    So dont' go to TOR. It's stupid and it'll only get you into trouble.




    ok, well TOR works like a very intricate network... it's not relevant how it works, is that anyone can know when you're logging into it. I, as the NSA, can put a listening device on all outputs from all TOR servers. So I can know how many people, on TOR, have gone to see what websites, i just don't know from what real IPs they did that. So I know what IP goes there, because when you log into TOR, you get a new IP, that changes very often... but your real IP, 121.122.123.124, is completely hidden from me. But if I know that 100 people have logged into TOR, that's all the people that are using TOR now, and I see that 20 went to check out kiddie pr0n and 30 went to see jihadi websites and the rest just checked rabbit recipes or something as they would normally, you don't need TOR for that... I can focus in on the 50 troublemakers because they're the bastards. Ofc, in reality, this is a futile experiment since there are millions who use TOR, i think... i'd guess... idk. but its a safe bet.

    But that's why you have people telling you to use TOR. Because what if it's not 100 people, but 1000 people... and only 50 troublemakers? Well... harder to find isn't it? What if they are 10k people. You have 10k logs showing that 10k people accessed TOR, so you know who accessed it... but you don't know what they're looking for and you're just looking for 50 people. What do you do? Violate the rights of 10k to get the 50? Or not... this is why I don't encourage people to use TOR because it provides a safer net for the scoundrels.
    Couldn't you say all this about any vpn?

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Couldn't you say all this about any vpn?
    Ah, no. A vpn stands for virtual private network. It basically extends a private network over the public network which is the internet.

    TOR allows you to access the deep web, which you can't via VPN.

    So basically ,a VPN keeps you safe (your IP untraceable, or so they say)but you can't access the deep web.
    I don't trust a lot of VPNs. Ehm, I suggest you don't either because most are crap. You don't know, in truth, if a VPN is working or not. To you, it won't seem any different than using chrome incognito, as the end user. You don't see if it is working or not. So I wouldn't trust them.

    Honestly, as a common plebe, like myself, the best thing you can use a VPN for is to change your IP to another country. Like, for australians, use VPN when you log into steam and seem american so you pay american dollars at american rates for games. But your entire life, you'll have to be an american by VPN to access steam or the charade is done for.

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    Re: Tor: Good or Bad? Safe or Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    LOL, that was a selling point -- more people more what did they call it, relays, more people more relays. Definitely seemed like come join us flood the system...



    Also said the State Dept. funds them. So....that's a red flag too...
    Well, the technology was funded by the state department. But since then, like all technology, it grew and grew and became whatever it is now.

    So yeah, don't use TOR. I know that a lot of people are concerned for their privacy, but rest assured, you never had it on the internet. There is no such thing. It is a lie. It's just superficial privacy, as in, I can make an account named rainman and post on DP. That's not security or privacy, it's some annonimity but it's superficial. As you, chez, you don't know what my real name is. that's it. the ISP knows who the **** I am.

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