View Poll Results: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight

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Thread: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

  1. #31
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    WTF, are you talking about? The folks that took over Ukraine in a coup are not left wing at all, they are right wing not far off from the Taliban if what I've read and heard is accurate. At no point has anyone suggested that they are left or liberal or progressive.
    WTF are you talking about? The forces of the left have illegally taken Crimea, and are certainly indicating a desire to keep going.

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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    WTF are you talking about? The forces of the left have illegally taken Crimea, and are certainly indicating a desire to keep going.
    You think Russia is left wing???? Wow, nevermind, carry on.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    You think Russia is left wing???? Wow, nevermind, carry on.
    Thank you, I will.

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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    We have no business in the Ukraine's fight, period. If they want to have a war against the Russians, that's up to them. It is not, nor will it ever be our business. Now if they want to pay us to take part and completely fund our involvement, maybe. So long as it remains at U.S. taxpayer expense, we have no business there at all.
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Almost 40% of domestic gas consumption in Germany was from Russia, and France and Italy also depend on the supply, about an eight and quarter respectively. NATO and the EU are doing what they've always done, and that is interfere in Europe's affairs when they clearly shouldn't be doing so. The annexation of Crimea by Russia was a historical inevitability, especially when Kiev shows signs of being hostile towards ethnic Russians (they threatened to abolish the law on languages of minorities; in other words, intimidate ethnic Russians). What do you expect Russia to do? You have to understand the angle they're coming at this from. To them, the protests in Kiev were incited and encouraged by the West and the toppling of the legitimate Yanukovych government was the fault of the EU. If the majority of the Crimean population supports succession, and let's face it, whether the results of the election were fabricated or not is irrelevant, it is certain that a majority of Crimeans supported the measures, then why should the West get involved at all? They know that their actions lead to a bellicose environment.

    The West seems to forget that the current Kiev government has far-right elements that it so keenly denounces in other scenarios, and yet it pledges to provide aid and assistance, violating all of its supposedly rigid frame of principles.

  6. #36
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If we're willing to do that, why not put US troops in (what remains of) Ukraine right now?
    We should do so. Even with just a token small force Russia would not move further in Ukraine. Obama announcing he will not do so is effectively his giving his permission to Russia to grab anything else of Ukraine he wants.

  7. #37
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So your solution is provoke Russia but you do not want American troops directly against Russian troops? Thats like sending in someone to call one of the meanest bikers the worst name possible and expecting to not get punched or worse.
    No it's not. Its like the meanest biker of all - the USA - giving a little guy whose being bulleted a .38 special.

    Putting USA troops in non-Russia-claimed Ukraine does not "provoke" Russia whatsoever. Its just reminding Russia that actually we are still the toughest guy on the block - and they can test if it that is true if they REALLY want to start a fight. The entire cold war was built upon which ever side was able to put troops anywhere it meant the other side was locked out of it. That has worked for decades, never failed.

    Russia, like all countries, wants many things. The absolute top of the list thing Russia does NOT want to a war with the United States since, in the final analysis, such a war is impossible for either side to win. It would just be a non-nuclear killing contest. Since this is on Russia' border, not ours, they actually have more to lose it they cause armed conflict all around their own borders.

    Do you REALLY think Russia would attack a USA base in the Ukraine? Really??

    COWARDICE doesn't work in foreign policy - it is blood before sharks.

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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    While Ukraine gave away its self defense nuclear arsenal, they have many nuclear power plants. They could turn large areas of Russia and Europe into a radiation wasteland. Just by waiting until there was a strong wind blowing the right way and venting their reactors they could kill a few million Russians - although it'd be slow, really painful killing spanning many years.

    Ukraine won't fight. They know all the words everyone is saying means exactly nothing. They have been totally tricked into disarmament is backroom deals, betrayed, lied to, and abandoned by exactly everyone. They are a defeated country now left no choice but to be beggars of Russia and laboring to give their money to Russia - basically Russia's sweatshop labor. We sure tricked them good! Very skilled at doing so.

    The USA gave Russia Crimea and in return Russia won't mess with the resources we are taking in Southern former Eastern USSR bloc countries. Its the same business that has been going on for decades - and in some regards a couple centuries.

    The bottom line to the deal is Russia gets anything it wants from its former Eastern bloc subjugated nations, while the USA and certain Western Europe countries get what we want out of their former Southern USSR block countries. But a good show of shaking fists and cursing each other will be put on for us stupid sheeple.

  9. #39
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    I would need to see the NATO reaction, and evaluate the Russian stomach for decimation.

    If it was clear NATO was united in the decision to block the Russian advance I would probably accept the decision and say we need to adhere to the treaty.....but if we do so, we do it full force and understand the implications.


    Either we get Nuked, along with others....or Russia becomes a third world nation.

  10. #40
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No it's not. Its like the meanest biker of all - the USA - giving a little guy whose being bulleted a .38 special.

    Putting USA troops in non-Russia-claimed Ukraine does not "provoke" Russia whatsoever. Its just reminding Russia that actually we are still the toughest guy on the block - and they can test if it that is true if they REALLY want to start a fight. The entire cold war was built upon which ever side was able to put troops anywhere it meant the other side was locked out of it. That has worked for decades, never failed.

    Russia, like all countries, wants many things. The absolute top of the list thing Russia does NOT want to a war with the United States since, in the final analysis, such a war is impossible for either side to win. It would just be a non-nuclear killing contest. Since this is on Russia' border, not ours, they actually have more to lose it they cause armed conflict all around their own borders.

    Do you REALLY think Russia would attack a USA base in the Ukraine? Really??
    If they take what we do as an act of aggression then sure. They may count on the fact that we may not want a war or that we are reluctant to use our nukes.

    COWARDICE doesn't work in foreign policy - it is blood before sharks.
    Neither does trying to make the world our bitch - it creates lots of enemies.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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