View Poll Results: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight

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  • I would remain steadfast in my current position.

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Thread: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

  1. #21
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    You may be correct. If interrupted, I'm sure Putin would try to make it look like Ukraine was a fault, even though the flow is controlled by Russia. It seems to me the death of others is not something Putin cares anything about.

    On the other hand, the resurrection of the USSR will likely encourage most to make the sacrifice needed to stop it.
    Oh please, neither does the West or the USA, how many innocent people die because of the sanctions we've put against other countries? Please let's not let patriotism get in the way of reality.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  2. #22
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Oh please, neither does the West or the USA, how many innocent people die because of the sanctions we've put against other countries? Please let's not let patriotism get in the way of reality.


    I'm not so sure you understand what reality is. Do you think the EU is going to let Putin re-take Eastern Europe because they are connected to his natural gas pipelines?

  3. #23
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post


    I'm not so sure you understand what reality is. Do you think the EU is going to let Putin re-take Eastern Europe because they are connected to his natural gas pipelines?
    No, I already said I don't think they will let Putin. I also don't think they'd think twice about taking on Ukraine themselves if they perceived Ukraine as an obstacle to gas and oil flows.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  4. #24
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    "One soldier"??? Come on now, you aren't usually prone to such foolish exaggerations. Nor did I present such a foolish exaggeration.
    OK, 100,000 soldiers. Why don't you answer my original question instead of making me the problem.

  5. #25
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    No, I already said I don't think they will let Putin. I also don't think they'd think twice about taking on Ukraine themselves if they perceived Ukraine as an obstacle to gas and oil flows.
    So you don't think they would let Putin resurrect the USSR, but you think they will attack Ukraine if Putin turns off the gas should Ukraine try to stop him from taking over?

    The logic escapes me.

  6. #26
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    OK, 100,000 soldiers. Why don't you answer my original question instead of making me the problem.
    I don't have an definitive answer, but it sure seems way odd that we have a treaty to protect and yet they have one of our worst "enemies" all over their soil in uniforms, with tanks, navy, compounds, etc.

    I'm imagining that while we have boots on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan, any other treaty that might be used against us is considered dead, don't you?

    It's just odd. Usually we are physically nearby and/or within the boundaries of those we promise to protect, certainly not a case where we are no where to be found and the Russians, or the Pakistani's, or any other iffy ally (which is the best we could ever have called Russia) in nearly full force (I say full force because 100K troops seems like a plenty big enough force to be considered full for state the size of Crimea.)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, we do not have nor have ever had a command post in Ukraine or Crimea.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  7. #27
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    So you don't think they would let Putin resurrect the USSR, but you think they will attack Ukraine if Putin turns off the gas should Ukraine try to stop him from taking over?

    The logic escapes me.
    No, I'm saying they'll attack Russia if they try to take Ukraine for fear that Russia will interfere with gas and oil flow. And/or if Ukraine on it's own with it's new extreme right wing stooges decide to choose to interfere with the flow of gas and oil to the EU, regardless of Russia, they'd be just as easily going to war with Ukraine. Make sense now? I'm not sure how else to make it clear.

    In the end, EU, I think, will go to war against whomever they perceive is a threat to their oil and gas whether it be Russia or Ukraine. I think the reason they aren't really doing anything now, is because Crimea isn't critical to those pipelines.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  8. #28
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    No, I'm saying they'll attack Russia if they try to take Ukraine. And/or if Ukraine on it's own with it's new extreme right wing stooges decide to choose to interfere with the flow of gas and oil to the EU, regardless of Russia, they'd be just as easily going to war with Ukraine. Make sense now? I'm not sure how else to make it clear.

    In the end, EU, I think, will go to war against whomever they perceive is a threat to their oil and gas whether it be Russia or Ukraine. I think the reason they aren't really doing anything now, is because Crimea isn't critical to those pipelines.
    Unfortunately for you, it's the extreme stooges of the left wing the EU is concerned with. The right is interested in erasing the blight of the left, and Putin seems hell bent on stopping them.

  9. #29
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Steadfast. It's right in their backyard, for God's sake. Would anyone want to go toe to toe with the Russian military over this? You'd have to be crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    My position is that it is none of our business and we should stay the **** out of it.
    I agree, but I would hesitate to give the Russians a blank check.

    We should not get involved militarily in any Urkaine vs Russia conflict unless the Russians threaten the survival of Ukraine as an independent nation and Ukrainians as a sovereign people.

    Occupying Crimea does not threaten Ukrainian survival as a nation. Forcibly annexing large portions of eastern Ukraine might, forcibly reincoorperating the entire Ukrainian nation into a reconstitution of the Sovet system sans communism would.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 03-20-14 at 06:49 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: If the Ukrainians were to take up arms and fight...

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Unfortunately for you, it's the extreme stooges of the left wing the EU is concerned with. The right is interested in erasing the blight of the left, and Putin seems hell bent on stopping them.
    WTF, are you talking about? The folks that took over Ukraine in a coup are not left wing at all, they are right wing not far off from the Taliban if what I've read and heard is accurate. At no point has anyone suggested that they are left or liberal or progressive.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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