• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

  • School grounds only.

    Votes: 31 63.3%

  • Up to the time the student(s) get home.

    Votes: 8 16.3%

  • Anytime, anything, anywhere.

    Votes: 4 8.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • Total voters
    49
radcen said:
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?
Click to expand...
Short answer, schools are responsible for the safety and wellbeing of students on their property, their liability ends at that point and so does their authority. After the student leaves the grounds harassment and bullying are legal issues; as well as any assaults or batteries that occur at that point. The one difference I can see off grounds would be a school bus, if it is the schools property then the rule of "grounds" would apply, if it is a sub-contractor with a privately owned bus, the school would still be liable so it can be assumed authority is granted in that specific area.
Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?
Click to expand...
Without a doubt.
Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?
Click to expand...
Never.

Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?
Click to expand...
No, however if they think a child is being abused they should have the right to make a report to authorities.
 
MaggieD said:
What should happen is that the plug should be pulled on all social media for the one being bullied . . . and the ones doing the bullying. No phone with internet access. No texting ability. No freakin' nuthin'.

It is long past time that parents realize internet access, smartphones, dumb phones, unlimited texting plans, car keys, TVs in bedrooms, computers for other than school work . . . all if it . . . are perks to be earned. Not entitlements.
Click to expand...
My opinion differs a bit, but not by much. Cyber crime has been expanded to cover online harassment over social media which I can't say I disagree with, I wouldn't have a problem as well with expanding the civil liability of defamation "a bit" in light of the cyber bullying suicides that have been coming to light. Pushing a teen to the point of choosing to die is unacceptable, I think we can all agree to that, where I differ from you is in taking away access from the bullied child(though I agree it may be for the best ultimately to separate them from that trauma) though I wouldn't have a single problem with the bullies themselves being cut off by court order from all cyber activity.
 
year2late said:
I agree, give them one of those granny cell phones. Calls home, parents work, and 911.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't give a child of mine anything more than a basic phone, if they want to work for it later in their teens and buy one, different story.
 
Mason66 said:
Why does a kid need a phone at all?
Click to expand...
I used to think that way too, I don't think they need a standard plan but something that they can use to call in an emergency, or if they need a ride home, something like that. Kids are kind of wild cards and sometimes stuff just comes up.

year2late said:
Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.
Click to expand...
Pay phones are on the way to obsolescence, I don't think I've personally seen one in about five years.
 
I think when student leaves schools, responsibility of school should end. Parents should play their roles.
 
`
`

My Opinion (may be controversial)

A school and teachers was and should continue to remain, a place to solely educate students. Adult education aside, too many schools, especially in urban areas, have turned into miniature armed camps where disruptive students make going to school actually dangerous. Many parents have abdicated their responsibilities and rights to be the primary educator in their child's life, which includes the social skills needed to succeed in society, to the school. So, aside being just educators of academic knowledge, they have to be nanny's, guidance counselors, disciplinarians, judges and behavioral specialists.

Ideally, the school's responsibility should end at the door, but our litigious society has thrust more responsibilities on teachers. Complicating things is the budget cuts schools have endured and high turnover of teachers in urban areas.

It is because of the lack of parental responsibility that is making schools become more involved in a students life once outside the door.
 
Woodman909 said:
Indeed. I forgot about the bus.
Click to expand...

Some children, or young adults can be overbearing, and can cause trouble in, and out of the class room.
This video was of a school bus driver who was attacked by a 17 year old. The 17 year old has been a trouble maker previous to this occasion.
The bus driver did get his job back BTW.

 
The school has authority at the school or on school transportation like buses and vans, however, that authority is rescinded, immediately, upon a parent or legal guardian coming to pick up their child, at any time or for any reason.
 
Slyfox696 said:
But life just isn't that simple. For example, what if one student tells another they are going to beat them up when they see them at school. Well, they get to school and the first child could be afraid of the bully, but since nothing has technically happened, are you saying the first child should go through school all day in fear?

There's no good solution here, because the best solution would be proactive parents teaching their children respect for others. But we know there will always be bullies, some people just don't know any other way. So it is then the job of the community, including the school, to do what they can to protect the bullied child.
Click to expand...

Parenting isnt simple...or easy. The school sets the rules for behavior at school....and if the kid is bullying, he/she gets suspended or expelled and the parents have to deal with the consequences....like daycare, missing work, etc.

Parenting doesnt begin when a problem shows up....it begins when they are born and you are proactive and raise them to respect others, for example. That way, if they do disobey, you've got a foundation to fall back on and have already explained the consequences.

But the schools barely have enough time and resources to TEACH, much less control your kids. And they arent doing a very good job at that, just IMO, as a general comment.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I picked other. Their authority to discipline only extends as far as the parent says. If the child misbehaves then the school should inform the parent and between the two they can come up with a suitable punishment...if any. And when I say that the school should get in touch with the parent I mean phone calls, no notes. If the parent ignores the phone calls then show up on their doorstep. If the parent doesn't engage then and only then can the school discipline as they see fit. And even then it only extends to things that the student does during school time and on school property. If the harrassment happens off school property then those school officials should call the cops just like any other ordinary citizen.

The only sanctioned discipline actions that would be acceptable for the school to do on thier own without parental permission is detention and in school suspension (IE make student sit in office all day reading thier text books depending on the period they are suppose to be in). And even then the parent could override.
Click to expand...

I'm not paying taxes to have schools go out of their way, after hours, to talk to non-responsive, irresponsible parents. If they cant contact the parents by phone, discipline the kid or send the police (and I'm not thrilled with paying for them to do it either.)

To be honest, I dont see any other punishments appropriate for schools to mete out at all besides the ones you described tho. A parent cant override either tho. THey dont like it, take your kid and go.
 
Gaius46 said:
Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
Click to expand...

A non-violent crime? None of the school's business. And if there are safety risks to other students, then perhaps work something out with the parents in terms of responsibility and discipline or yes, expel or suspend kid.
 
radcen said:
Agreed. I want to say kids don't need phones... though the definition of "need" should factor in as well... but the reality is that the world has changed. For good or for bad, they are becoming more and more necessary.
Click to expand...

They are still just a convenience....we've just readjusted our lifestyles around them.
 
year2late said:
Depending on where you live, no there is not.

Growing up we had friends and classmates on almost every block.

It just is not like that anymore.

If we were in another part of the city and our bus brokedown or we missed our connection, our parents would flip if we didn't call. But there were payphones everywhere. We were not calling for a bailout, just "hey, we are still trying to get back and there is a huge mess on Market St, we will at least be another hour or so'
Click to expand...

Someone else will have a cell phone, there dont need to be pay phones anymore....how many were right on hand in an emergency before?
 
John Pattett said:
I think when student leaves schools, responsibility of school should end. Parents should play their roles.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The more responsibility you remove from them, the less they'll take it on their own...they'll just defacto let 'others' handle it so they can be their kids friends, or whatever.

Not all parents are like that at all...but many are.
 
Lursa said:
I'm not paying taxes to have schools go out of their way, after hours, to talk to non-responsive, irresponsible parents. If they cant contact the parents by phone, discipline the kid or send the police (and I'm not thrilled with paying for them to do it either.)

To be honest, I dont see any other punishments appropriate for schools to mete out at all besides the ones you described tho. A parent cant override either tho. THey dont like it, take your kid and go.
Click to expand...

I'm sooo tired of the "I pay taxes" schtick. Why do people use that knowing that others pay it also and have just as much say in those regards as they do?
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm sooo tired of the "I pay taxes" schtick. Why do people use that knowing that others pay it also and have just as much say in those regards as they do?
Click to expand...

What is your point? That it's ok to waste my money and other people's? To do the jobs that parents should be doing?
 
Lursa said:
What is your point? That it's ok to waste my money and other people's? To do the jobs that parents should be doing?
Click to expand...

1: How can the parents know that they have a child that needs disciplining if the teacher can't get ahold of them? Think the child will voluntarily tell the parent that "Hey! I bullied a kid at school today because I thought they were nerds!"?

2: You consider it wasteing money to do everything that they can to get ahold of the parent/s directly. I don't. :shrug: IE: My point was that using the whole "I pay taxes" schtick is nothing more than a self righteous superiority complex from someone that thinks that their opinion is the only one that matters because they pay taxes. Totally ignoring the very real fact that those that disagree with them ALSO pay taxes.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Schools = school grounds, school functions, school staff, school this - school that. Anytime they've created an environment or foster it via the presence of school officials it's their territory.

Anything beyond school = law enforcement.

Facebook? = parents/family and law enforcement.
Click to expand...
Just to add to that, I see no problem with the school informing parents and/or government offices (law enforcement, social services, or whatever might be appropriate) of a perceived problem.



PS
A little off topic but ...
I can also see where a student posting a copy of a test, especially if it includes the correct answers, could also be grounds for school action.
 
Last edited:
Kal'Stang said:
1: How can the parents know that they have a child that needs disciplining if the teacher can't get ahold of them? Think the child will voluntarily tell the parent that "Hey! I bullied a kid at school today because I thought they were nerds!"?

2: You consider it wasteing money to do everything that they can to get ahold of the parent/s directly. I don't. :shrug: IE: My point was that using the whole "I pay taxes" schtick is nothing more than a self righteous superiority complex from someone that thinks that their opinion is the only one that matters because they pay taxes. Totally ignoring the very real fact that those that disagree with them ALSO pay taxes.
Click to expand...

Have every parent's work number (they most likely do anyway....there's always an 'emergency contact). Call them at work and leave a message....might even be motivating if it makes them look bad.

I can be self-righteous when I see my money wasted. Just because it's about money doesnt excuse incompetence and wasted and poor processes and discipline. That just enables more bureaucracy.

But I really do blame the parents more, not the schools. We've had a teacher here tell us directly that many policies are not for the welfare of the kids but to protect the schools and administrators and even teachers from legal action from pissed off parents. Even if they are wrong, the schools cannot afford to fight them in court.

It was the thread about the kid who was kicked out of school for making a gun with his fingers.
 
Lursa said:
Have every parent's work number (they most likely do anyway....there's always an 'emergency contact). Call them at work and leave a message....might even be motivating if it makes them look bad.
Click to expand...

Messages can be lost and ignored. I'd prefer putting them in a situation where they HAVE to acknowledge it and do something about it.

Lursa said:
I can be self-righteous when I see my money wasted. Just because it's about money doesnt excuse incompetence and wasted and poor processes and discipline. That just enables more bureaucracy.
Click to expand...

Again, its not just your money. Other people have valid opinions on what is and isn't a waste. It is good to know though that you think that getting parents directly involved by putting them in a situation where they have to actually deal with the problem and not just ignore it is a waste...and you are by your own words, self righteous about it.

Lursa said:
But I really do blame the parents more, not the schools. We've had a teacher here tell us directly that many policies are not for the welfare of the kids but to protect the schools and administrators and even teachers from legal action from pissed off parents. Even if they are wrong, the schools cannot afford to fight them in court.
Click to expand...

Another reason to force the parents into a situation where they have to deal with the problem directly.

Lursa said:
It was the thread about the kid who was kicked out of school for making a gun with his fingers.
Click to expand...

Whats this got to do with what we have been talking about? Did I miss some segway or something?
 
Depends... if a student is posting stuff at home that is bullying another student then the school should be involved. If the student is doing any number of things that could harm students, the school's reputation, etc. then the school should be involved and assess consequences.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom