View Poll Results: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

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  • School grounds only.

    39 67.24%
  • Up to the time the student(s) get home.

    8 13.79%
  • Anytime, anything, anywhere.

    4 6.90%
  • Other

    7 12.07%
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Thread: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

  1. #81
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
    Such a student would be excluded from all extra-curricular activities.
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    It's my understanding that the school's liability lasts until the child gets home so bullying on the walk home would be the school's responsibility. As for what happens on Facebook, that is another matter. so much of that can bleed over to the school day. Are the kids accessing Facebook while at school? Is it being discussed?
    No offense here, Layla. I seriously doubt what you say is true about the school's liability . . . unless the student is riding the bus; and then only until he exits it safely.

  3. #83
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What is your point? That it's ok to waste my money and other people's? To do the jobs that parents should be doing?
    It's great to say parents should do their jobs. I completely agree. But what happens when they don't. The school contacts the parents and says your child is bullying another child. Here's what's going to happen at school as a consequence but you need to take steps to stop it at home. Too often the parent's reaction will be to attack and blame the school. Schools have been taking on more and more of the parent's job because too many aren't doing their job.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  4. #84
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    It's great to say parents should do their jobs. I completely agree. But what happens when they don't. The school contacts the parents and says your child is bullying another child. Here's what's going to happen at school as a consequence but you need to take steps to stop it at home. Too often the parent's reaction will be to attack and blame the school. Schools have been taking on more and more of the parent's job because too many aren't doing their job.
    Yet...

    Can we force such a thing?
    Regulations about how to parent (beyond the laws against abuse already)?

    Personally I think that would make things worse.

    So how then, if it cannot be regulated? Cultural changes? How do you do that, intentionally?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #85
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It's just silly to focus on 'contacting the parents' like it's a big issue here (in terms of ability, not when it's appropriate to do so). They have emergency contact numbers....and this is not an emergency. Timing may be more relevant in an actual emergency but not regarding discipline...

    and it is my money and the only thing that legitimizes the govt TAKING it from me is the production of a better, more educated citizenry. And I certainly do believe in holding parents accountable and dragging them into being more involved with their kid's discipline. The school shouldnt over reach into the home...it should make the penalties on the kid in school have consequences that also affect the parents and motivate them to ACT at home.

    The $$ I referred to came up in a thread where they had ZERO tolerance policies against guns and kicked a kid out for making a gun with his fingers. The zero tolerance policy enables the school to avoid actually examining issues on an individual basis and therefore avoid claims of prejudice or unfairness from parents....which parents can challenge in courts. Win, lose, or settle, it all costs the school $$ so it's cheaper to have mindless zero tolerance policies. It was tangential to this issue and relevant in the post...sorry if it was confusing.
    Take it from someone who has been there. It can be all but impossible to contact a parent if they don't want to be contacted. If you do finally get them, you wish you hadn't because of the hateful response.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  6. #86
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No offense here, Layla. I seriously doubt what you say is true about the school's liability . . . unless the student is riding the bus; and then only until he exits it safely.
    I've been teaching for 20 years. Why in the world would you think I know what I'm talking about. It may vary from state to state, but I am certain what I stated is the case here.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  7. #87
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Yet...

    Can we force such a thing?
    Regulations about how to parent (beyond the laws against abuse already)?

    Personally I think that would make things worse.

    So how then, if it cannot be regulated? Cultural changes? How do you do that, intentionally?
    I don't know the answer. I wish I did. We discuss this at school often. What do you do with kids who don't care? They don't care if they fail, they don't care if they are in trouble, they are never ashamed or embarrassed by consequences. The bigger worry is what do you do with those same kids when their parents don't care?
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I don't know the answer. I wish I did. We discuss this at school often. What do you do with kids who don't care? They don't care if they fail, they don't care if they are in trouble, they are never ashamed or embarrassed by consequences. The bigger worry is what do you do with those same kids when their parents don't care?
    At some point I assume that some of them reach the point of going to a juvenile detention facility?
    But at that point it's often long after the point at which the parents should have done something....

    The thing is....getting the kids to care. That's the key, really.. And also the problem...

    You can pass it off to the parent, sure. but what if they don't care enough to pick up the baton (which they should have been holding the entire time to begin with, of course).


    You could make a law that required every parent/guardian to spend time with their kid for an hour a day. But how many freedoms would that infringe upon?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Perhaps a required course for graduation from HS, focused on child-rearing. Of course that's more of an art than a science really.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #90
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I've been teaching for 20 years. Why in the world would you think I know what I'm talking about. It may vary from state to state, but I am certain what I stated is the case here.
    It's always been amazing to me what people, including myself, think they know. What state do you live in, Layla, I'd like to check it. I think holding a school legally liable for what happens to a child as he walks home from school is ludicrous. Gets hit by a car? School's liable. Gets kidnapped? School's liable. Breaks his arm? School's liable. I find that very hard to believe.

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