View Poll Results: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

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  • School grounds only.

    39 67.24%
  • Up to the time the student(s) get home.

    8 13.79%
  • Anytime, anything, anywhere.

    4 6.90%
  • Other

    7 12.07%
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Thread: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

  1. #41
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
    It would depend on the issue really. For example, whenever students are caught with alcohol, most schools suspend or dismiss the student from the athletic team. I see it happen all the time at different schools. I would think if a student attempted to murder another one, then they would not be allowed at school either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I will agree with part of what you said.

    The school should get the parents involved to resolve whatever situation arises, however if the parents do not do anything or the behaviour continues, then the school should step in if, as you say, it is affecting the schoolwork of the child.

    The parent should always be the first call before the school hands down any kind of punishment.
    When you say "any kind of punishment", are you limiting that to major offense? Because surely you understand schools simply don't have time to play phone tag every time someone gets a detention for being late to class.

    If you're simply talking about major offenses, then I agree and usually schools will. I obviously cannot speak for all schools, but from what I know of the schools I have knowledge/experience with, they will call.

  2. #42
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

    Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

    Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

    Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

    What think you?
    I think it depends slightly on if we are talking specifically about authority as it relates to your bullying example or if we also include general responsibility. For example: An elementary school has a fence around it's playground. But there is a widening hole and one day a second grader climbs through it and his struck by a car. Is the school responsible? I think they probably are. In that sense what happens when the student leaves school, even if it was illicit, is very much on the schools shoulders.

    But authority over students? I'm not sure. It seems hard to argue (to me) that a public school should have the right to penalize or scrutinize what students do with their speech (FB, Twitter, etc) on their own free time regardless of the deleterious effects it might have at school. Unless it's against the law in which case I think schools have clauses that give them rights to discipline students I'm not sure it's a justifiable, or good for that matter, precedent to establish.

    Though I'm sympathetic to contrary arguments.

  3. #43
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

    Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

    Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

    Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

    What think you?
    Implicit in your scenario described is the school's lack of involvement in dealing with the bullying in the first place, since you describe it as occurring at at school and then expanding. As such, the school is actually complicit in the bullying since it allows it to occur.

    Before anything else, I believe those who administer schools should take responsibility for their role in the process. Without such, it simply becomes a matter of doing what is expedient instead of doing that which fosters safety and a healthy learning environment.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  4. #44
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think it depends slightly on if we are talking specifically about authority as it relates to your bullying example or if we also include general responsibility. For example: An elementary school has a fence around it's playground. But there is a widening hole and one day a second grader climbs through it and his struck by a car. Is the school responsible? I think they probably are. In that sense what happens when the student leaves school, even if it was illicit, is very much on the schools shoulders.

    But authority over students? I'm not sure. It seems hard to argue (to me) that a public school should have the right to penalize or scrutinize what students do with their speech (FB, Twitter, etc) on their own free time regardless of the deleterious effects it might have at school. Unless it's against the law in which case I think schools have clauses that give them rights to discipline students I'm not sure it's a justifiable, or good for that matter, precedent to establish.

    Though I'm sympathetic to contrary arguments.
    Good post. I like your hole in the fence scenario. In that case, the school was probably negligent and should be held responsible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Implicit in your scenario described is the school's lack of involvement in dealing with the bullying in the first place, since you describe it as occurring at at school and then expanding. As such, the school is actually complicit in the bullying since it allows it to occur.

    Before anything else, I believe those who administer schools should take responsibility for their role in the process. Without such, it simply becomes a matter of doing what is expedient instead of doing that which fosters safety and a healthy learning environment.
    To a great degree, sure. Fact is that most kids meet at school, and spend the majority of their active social time at school, and much of this time is spent with other kids that they both like and dislike.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #45
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.
    As a kid I can't remember even one time I needed to make a call onthe Street.

    What is so important to a kid that they have to make a call right at that second, and plkease don't say he needs it for an emergency, because that is not true. There si always a pone available in case of an emergency.

  6. #46
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    It would depend on the issue really. For example, whenever students are caught with alcohol, most schools suspend or dismiss the student from the athletic team. I see it happen all the time at different schools. I would think if a student attempted to murder another one, then they would not be allowed at school either.


    When you say "any kind of punishment", are you limiting that to major offense? Because surely you understand schools simply don't have time to play phone tag every time someone gets a detention for being late to class.

    If you're simply talking about major offenses, then I agree and usually schools will. I obviously cannot speak for all schools, but from what I know of the schools I have knowledge/experience with, they will call.
    I don't see detention as a punishment. A punishment changes the kids life, like s suspensión or expulsión. Detention is a learning tool.

  7. #47
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    As a kid I can't remember even one time I needed to make a call onthe Street.

    What is so important to a kid that they have to make a call right at that second, and plkease don't say he needs it for an emergency, because that is not true. There si always a pone available in case of an emergency.
    Depending on where you live, no there is not.

    Growing up we had friends and classmates on almost every block.

    It just is not like that anymore.

    If we were in another part of the city and our bus brokedown or we missed our connection, our parents would flip if we didn't call. But there were payphones everywhere. We were not calling for a bailout, just "hey, we are still trying to get back and there is a huge mess on Market St, we will at least be another hour or so'

  8. #48
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Why does a kid need a phone at all?
    Could be used to call for help.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    I'd say only on school grounds. Which would include school transport vehicles, as someone pointed out.

    However I see one main issue with that - not all parents discipline their children's misbehavior correctly, and some don't do so at all.

    But is it even possible to legislate/regulate that, and even if we could, should we?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.

    Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?

    Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?

    Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?

    What think you?
    Turning to the school isn't the answer. File restraining orders and a harassment lawsuit against the children directly instead.

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