View Poll Results: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

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  • School grounds only.

    39 67.24%
  • Up to the time the student(s) get home.

    8 13.79%
  • Anytime, anything, anywhere.

    4 6.90%
  • Other

    7 12.07%
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Thread: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

  1. #91
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Authority = responsibility, only fair

    If the bully can be suspended for actions off school property, then the bully's victim can sue the school too

    I actually learned all this the hard way. A teacher backed out her driveway and nearly crashed into me on the road leading to school. I drove past and flipped her off. Well i didn't know who she was (i probly woulda done it anyway), and as i parked she pulls up behind me and screams "You're outta here!" I still didn't know her (special ed teacher)

    Of course got summoned to the principal. My case was it was off school property, they showed me the student handbook (which i never read) where it said even on vacation ------- I laughed, said that's outrageous, and they can try pursue it so long as they do the same to her for nearly running me over and i might even hold the school responsible for the trauma.

    That was the end of that.

  2. #92
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    At some point I assume that some of them reach the point of going to a juvenile detention facility?
    But at that point it's often long after the point at which the parents should have done something....

    The thing is....getting the kids to care. That's the key, really.. And also the problem...

    You can pass it off to the parent, sure. but what if they don't care enough to pick up the baton (which they should have been holding the entire time to begin with, of course).


    You could make a law that required every parent/guardian to spend time with their kid for an hour a day. But how many freedoms would that infringe upon?
    Sometimes the kids come around and start trying. Other times, they drop out or end up like you said.
    You can't make people be good parents.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's always been amazing to me what people, including myself, think they know. What state do you live in, Layla, I'd like to check it. I think holding a school legally liable for what happens to a child as he walks home from school is ludicrous. Gets hit by a car? School's liable. Gets kidnapped? School's liable. Breaks his arm? School's liable. I find that very hard to believe.
    It's always been amazing to me how people think they are experts when they are not. I live in Missouri.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    It's always been amazing to me how people think they are experts when they are not. I live in Missouri.
    Thanks for the state, Layla. I've Googled every which way from Sunday and can find no confirmation either way. I will just disagree and leave it at that.

    No offense.

  5. #95
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Thanks for the state, Layla. I've Googled every which way from Sunday and can find no confirmation either way. I will just disagree and leave it at that.

    No offense.
    To the best of my knowledge, Layla_Z is correct about the liability of schools in Missouri. I'll do some checking to see if I can find references in the Revised Statutes (RSMo) but it may be a matter or case law, which is often difficult to research on-line unless you have access to a legal library of some kind.



    PS
    Yes, traffic can sometimes be an issue but let me ask you this. If schools aren't at least somewhat liable when the student is off school grounds then why are there crossing guards, which are sometimes (often?) paid out of school funds?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-30-14 at 03:18 AM.
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  6. #96
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    I voted school grounds only. It seems like the best option.

  7. #97

    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    So this means if the school knows bullying is going on they basically condone it once a student leaves campus. It sounds more like an easy way for teachers to skip out on teaching lessons and priceples that go past the regular school courses and curriculum, lessons that should be instilled at a young age. This job is entrusted to schools regardless of the time of day or place.

  8. #98
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Thanks for the state, Layla. I've Googled every which way from Sunday and can find no confirmation either way. I will just disagree and leave it at that.

    No offense.
    Looking through the RSMo I couldn't find any mention of school liability or jurisdiction beyond school grounds, school events, and school buses (but see below). However, there were several areas where the phrase "within one thousand feet of school property" was used, which means there might be case law covering school liability up to that distance from the school. (For example, one of those areas barred suspended students from being within that distance, showing that the school does have some authority, even over suspended students, outside of school property.) That would also explain crossing guards.

    There was also a relatively new (2007?) RSMo concerning bullying, which specifically mentioned cyber-bullying and on-line activities. Whether that means the school can poke it's nose into that kind of thing when it's not during school hours or not I don't know. An older RSMo says harassment is illegal and refers to another section of law which specifically cites "causing ... emotional distress" as a form of harassment.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-30-14 at 04:17 AM.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Looking through the RSMo I couldn't find any mention of school liability or jurisdiction beyond school grounds, school events, and school buses (but see below). However, there were several areas where the phrase "within one thousand feet of school property" was used, which means there might be case law covering school liability up to that distance from the school. (For example, one of those areas barred suspended students from being within that distance, showing that the school does have some authority, even over suspended students, outside of school property.) That would also explain crossing guards.

    There was also a relatively new (2007?) RSMo concerning bullying, which specifically mentioned cyber-bullying and on-line activities. Whether that means the school can poke it's nose into that kind of thing when it's not during school hours or not I don't know. An older RSMo says harassment is illegal and refers to another section of law which specifically cites "causing ... emotional distress" as a form of harassment.
    Very VERY nice of you to do some research. Thank you very much!! I'm always up to learning something on DP; it's one reason I'm here. Not to belabor the point, but the discussion is interesting. When Layla used the phrasing, "The school is responsible for their safety...", that to me conjures up legal liability. There is no doubt in my mind that, for instance, field trips or sporting events or riding the school bus...that kind of thing...represents a legal responsibility for the school -- to provide a safe environment and supervision, for instance. My argument is that, for example, once a student gets safely off the school bus, the school has no further duty or responsibility for them.

    Oh!!! I learned something!!! School crossing guards, employed by the city of St. Louis, make $25.95 "per performance." Wow! I'd assume a "performance" might mean 3X a day -- morning/lunch/afternoon. That's pretty good money. Who knew?? They go on to say it's usually four hours a day total or less. And one of their responsibilities is to record license numbers of scofflaws and report them to their supervisors. And another responsibility of theirs is to report children's unsafe behavior to the school. Interesting!

    That last one, about unsafe behavior, would indicate the school has "authority" over students in that situation. That, though, is different from "responsibility". Current Jobs With The City of St. Louis

    In the City of Chicago, as an example, there is no school-provided transportation. One of the consequences of the city closing dozens of schools this past year is that students must traverse much longer distances to get to school sometimes putting them at risk for gang behavior, etc. The City of Chicago has established some "safe routes" for kids that have extra personnel trying to ensure kids' safety before and after school. If the city of Chicago, or the public school system, could be sued because a child was injured going to and from school? The system would be broke. When they've undertaken to provide these safe zones? Well, I'd say they may have bought a legal responsibility by their actions. (Maybe...try to sue the city or a school...I think it would be neigh onto impossible to win.)

    It's an interesting concept...interesting discussion...Thank you for engaging me.

  10. #100
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    Re: Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No offense here, Layla. I seriously doubt what you say is true about the school's liability . . . unless the student is riding the bus; and then only until he exits it safely.
    That's what I had always been told, going back to when I was a kid, that the school was responsible until you got home, regardless how you got home. I had always accepted it as such, and never really thought about it.

    Now, whether or not that's really true, or they were lying to keep us in line, I don't know. I was never a trouble-maker, so I never had reason to test it out and find out.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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