View Poll Results: Will the Ukraine lead to further Regional Conflicts?

Voters
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  • Yes, Putin is determined to build an empire.

    20 39.22%
  • No, we'll crush them economically.

    2 3.92%
  • Our military really scares them.

    1 1.96%
  • Diplomacy will win the day.

    5 9.80%
  • This event will fade away in time.

    25 49.02%
  • Give them a basket of fish.

    8 15.69%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

  1. #1
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    U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country.

    How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

    Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?

    Crimea votes on joining Russia amid soaring tensions

    Crimeans voted Sunday in a referendum to join former political master Russia as tensions escalated in eastern Ukraine in the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.

    Ukraine's new leaders and the West have branded as "illegal" the vote in the strategic Black Sea peninsula that has been under the de facto control of Russian forces for weeks.

    US Secretary of State John Kerry demanded that Moscow pull back its forces to their bases in Crimea in return for constitutional reforms in Ukraine to protect minority rights.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin said he would respect the outcome of the referendum, but the European Union condemned the vote and said it would be deciding on sanctions against Russia on Monday.


    "As Ukrainians take the necessary political measures going forward, Russia must reciprocate by pulling forces back to base, and addressing the tensions and concerns about military engagement," the official said.


    Ukraine's interim President Oleksandr Turchynov, who last month replaced ousted pro-Kremlin leader Viktor Yanukovych after three months of protests, also accused Russia of fanning tensions in eastern Ukraine as a way of justifying an invasion.

    "The result has been pre-planned by the Kremlin as a formal justification to send in its troops and start a war that will destroy people's lives and the economic prospects for Crimea," he said.

    The European Union said the referendum was "illegal and illegitimate" and again condemned Moscow's "unprovoked violation" of Ukraine's sovereignty.

    While the West has been powerless to stop Crimea's annexation, Russia faces a painful round of sanctions against top officials that Washington and EU nations are set to unveil on Monday and it could be ostracised or even ejected from the Group of Eight (G8) leading world powers.


    McCain: 'Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country'

    Sen. John McCain returned from a trip to Ukraine on Sunday, calling for "a fundamental re-assessment" of the United States' relationship with Russian Vladimir Putin.

    No more reset buttons," McCain told Candy Crowley on CNN's "State of the Union." Treat him for what he is. That does not mean re-ignition of the Cold War.

    McCain, who has been critical of the Obama administration's response to the crisis in Crimea, said the White House should target Russia's oil exports.

    "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country, McCain said. Its kleptocracy, its corruption. Its a nation thats really only dependent upon oil and gas for their economy. And so economic sanctions are important. Get some military assistance to Ukrainians, at least so they can defend themselves. Resume the missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic. Look at Moldova and Georgia, both of whom are occupied by Russian troops as we speak, a path toward membership in NATO.

    Speaking in Kiev with a delegation of fellow U.S. senators on Saturday, McCain called for the United States to provide long-term military support both "lethal and non-lethal" equipment to Ukraine. "[It is] the right and decent thing to do," McCain said.


    "Crimea has exposed the disturbing lack of realism that has characterized our foreign policy under President Obama," McCain wrote. "It is this worldview, or lack of one, that must change."

    McCain added: "Crimea must be the place where President Obama recognizes this reality and begins to restore the credibility of the United States as a world leader."
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    While I don't think Putin's ambitions are quite "Hitleresque" in scope, I don't think he has any intention of stopping any time soon either.

    He's going to continue pushing his luck for so long as the West continues to give him the leeway to do so.

    He might not want to "conquer the world," per se, but he certainly seems to have his heart set on re-establishing Russian hegemony in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. So far, we've simply been letting him get away with it.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    While I don't think Putin's ambitions are quite "Hitleresque" in scope, I don't think he has any intention of stopping any time soon either.

    He's going to continue pushing his luck for so long as the West continues to give him the leeway to do so.

    He might not want to "conquer the world," per se, but he certainly seems to have his heart set on re-establishing Russian hegemony in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. So far, we've simply been letting him get away with it.
    I think Putin has done the right thing. I think McCain should be institutionalized for his comments. Everybody knows that Russia encompasses 10 or 11 time zones, or do they. ?
    "Gas Station," what a maroon.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    So I was wondering....

    If the Crimean people want to join Russia, and legitimately voted to do so, have we any right to stop them?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Let him have it. Crimea's only been in the Ukraine since Khrushchev put it there in '54 anyway- it was all the USSR and it was just an adminstative thing. Why does anyone care if it's returned to Russia?
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Let him have it. Crimea's only been in the Ukraine since Khrushchev put it there in '54 anyway- it was all the USSR and it was just an administrative thing. Why does anyone care if it's returned to Russia?
    I would care only if the method of transfer involved coercion by Russians against Crimeans
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I would care only if the method of transfer involved coercion by Russians against Crimeans
    Which suggests is happening. If Russia wanted a clean vote, it would extract its troops, return to pre-occupation levels at its base and let them vote on their own.

    Instead, he's massing forces on Eastern Ukraine's border, moving armor near the ferry station across from Kretch and running daily reinforcement drops into Crimea.

    Is a contract where you sign over all your assets to me legitimate if I put a gun to your head and tell you to sign or die?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    U.S. - Russia, who wins?
    no one.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country.

    How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

    Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?


    Heya Grip. I see ya picked up Johnny Quests remarks about Russia. You know that one is going to go viral.




    If Putin does then moves to annex Crimea, another wave of sanctions, this time economic and more painful, are supposed to kick in.

    But Kremlin watchers like Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of the Russian quarterly "Russia in Global Affairs," notes that Putin has already decided to annex Crimea, and that no Western sanctions will deter him.

    "Putin doesn't care about what others will say," said Lukyanov. "And the West is demonstrating political dementia thinking that these individuals will be terrified by visa bans and asset freezes."

    Lukyanov also bets that the Kremlin has every chance of winning — or at least stalemating — a "war of sanctions" against the U.S. and European Union.

    They believe the recent build-up of Russian forces along Ukraine’s border and even Saturday’s incursion into mainland Ukraine by dozens of Russian troops - to commandeer a Crimean natural gas pumping station - are signals to the Ukrainian government in Kiev.

    "It’s part of a campaign to put more pressure on Ukraine," said Andrei Soldatov, a Russian security analyst and blogger, "and to send a clear message to Kiev — leave Crimea alone or we can take more."

    Whatever is up the Russian leader’s sleeve, he seems to be holding all the cards. And — as always — has left everyone guessing....snip~

    What's Putin's Next Move? It's Anyone's Guess, Experts Say - NBC News

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...2014-a-74.html

    Post 733.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    While I don't think Putin's ambitions are quite "Hitleresque" in scope, I don't think he has any intention of stopping any time soon either.

    He's going to continue pushing his luck for so long as the West continues to give him the leeway to do so.

    He might not want to "conquer the world," per se, but he certainly seems to have his heart set on re-establishing Russian hegemony in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. So far, we've simply been letting him get away with it.
    IMO he seriously overreached here.

    The argument that Russia reserves the right to invade and occupy areas where ethnic Russians are at "risk" should frighten every nation around Russia that has any material number of ethnic Russians. Why would any nation who respects its own sovereignty and territorial integrity want to move closer into Russia's sphere of influence? There's no question now that Ukraine is forever lost to Russia. Instead of ensuring that Ukraine will move solidly East, it will now move solidly West into the EU sphere of influence. Expect other FSU nations to follow suit now that they know the Bear is not their friend, but a nation that now views them as lunch. Furthermore, the EU has seen the true face of Putin and knows they cannot trust them at all. Expect hydrocarbon domestic production to boost as well as more contracts with US exporters and Middle Eastern suppliers. EU is reliant on them for about 30% and that amount can be severely reduced over the next couple of years.

    I don't think Russia has any international support for what it just did. China is absolutely livid over what Putin did as it now grants more international justification for nations to invade China and give its various areas who are vying for independence or more autonomy just that. China normally lock steps votes with Russia, but the recent UN resolution they refused to veto. China has to be calling Russia up screaming at what they're doing.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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