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U.S. - Russia, who wins?

Will the Ukraine lead to further Regional Conflicts?

  • Total voters
    47
loader said:
Who would have thought just a month ago, that the Russian Federation a bite a pice of an independent European country?
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anyone who understood anything about the Ukraine and Crimea, about Putin and the fall of the Soviet Union. None of the current events there should have been a surprise.
 
grip said:
Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country.

How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?
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Here's the deal. Putin and Russian nationalists are acting out of weakness. He invaded Ukraine, not because he was in control, but because he had lost control. I see a very weak Russia becoming more authoritarian and turning to military solutions because they are beginning to yearn for the good old days when the world shook in their boots at the mention of the USSR. The reality of the state of Russia internally and around the world is quite different, however. They are acting as though they are the USSR without actually being in a position to act that way. This will blow back in Putin's face big time. He is isolating himself and his country. In a world where being connected is essential for growth, he is trying to steer Russia into isolation and belligerence.
 
The Mark said:
So I was wondering....

If the Crimean people want to join Russia, and legitimately voted to do so, have we any right to stop them?
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what everyone is forgetting is that the Ukraine has been part of Russia since 1946. The ouster of the legally elected government [on grounds of corruption] was fed and abetted by the CIA and eager encouragement of Germany, that latter of which has rolled over.

As much as America loves to demonize Putin, he is a legally elected leader and is sworn, as is Obama, to protect his nation's interests. Now pause for a second and consider what would be the US reaction if the Russian equivalent of the CIA had managed to overthrow the legally elected government of Canada?
 
grip said:
Russia seems to have Crimea, locked up, as a part of their country.

How far will the US and EU pursue this issue, after the Crimea province and Ukraine leadership is settled and stable?

Is this about energy only, or are we really concerned about the people?
Click to expand...

I think Crimea is gone and that's all Russia really wants, in my view. I read somewhere recently that the Russian people were angry with Stalin originally, and Brezhnev later, for ceding Crimea to the Ukraine. Putin is basically, in the Russian view, righting an historical wrong. In addition, I think Russia only wanted Crimea and for two reasons - the deep water harbour for the Russian Black Sea fleet and the underwater oil and natural gas deposits in the territorial waters off Crimea.

Once the Russian parliament adopts motions to accept Crimea's vote to join the Russian federation, I think their part in this uprising will be over. It will depend, however, on whether or not the Ukrainians let the Crimean decision, such as it is, stand or if they do something that expands the hostilities further and drags the west in.
 
Who cares?

What is this, a football game?
 
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Dittohead not! said:
anyone who understood anything about the Ukraine and Crimea, about Putin and the fall of the Soviet Union. None of the current events there should have been a surprise.
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For Alaska, I will fight. I have 50 acres of land there.:sword:
 
Russian empire in Europe. lulz

I've heard it all now.
 
NoC_T said:
Russian empire in Europe. lulz

I've heard it all now.
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You've heard it all now?
So, you'd already heard about Russia annexing Alaska, Finland, Poland, and China while Mexico takes over Texas?
 
Dittohead not! said:
You've heard it all now?
So, you'd already heard about Russia annexing Alaska, Finland, Poland, and China while Mexico takes over Texas?
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Onion article?
 
Dittohead not! said:
You've heard it all now?
So, you'd already heard about Russia annexing Alaska, Finland, Poland, and China while Mexico takes over Texas?
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Don't forget the annexation of Australia and Brazil.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You've heard it all now?
So, you'd already heard about Russia annexing Alaska, Finland, Poland, and China while Mexico takes over Texas?
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Mexico also expects at least the City of Los Angeles, too, don't forget! It even sounds Mexican.... :lamo: China has probably already told Russia to forget annexing them, because Russia can't afford them! Hey, you can't win 'em all! :mrgreen:

Greetings, Dittohead not! :2wave:
 
It may have already been said since I have not read the thread but..

US - Russia who wins? Nobody

But the poll question does not really jive with the question posed in the thread title, which is what I was answering.
 
Russia's Putin seems to be on this track.
He should know that man has progressed, that the age of empires is over.
 
SBu said:
Here's the deal. Putin and Russian nationalists are acting out of weakness. He invaded Ukraine, not because he was in control, but because he had lost control. I see a very weak Russia becoming more authoritarian and turning to military solutions because they are beginning to yearn for the good old days when the world shook in their boots at the mention of the USSR. The reality of the state of Russia internally and around the world is quite different, however. They are acting as though they are the USSR without actually being in a position to act that way. This will blow back in Putin's face big time. He is isolating himself and his country. In a world where being connected is essential for growth, he is trying to steer Russia into isolation and belligerence.
Click to expand...

This may all be true to some degree but the main reason they're struggling for control over the Ukraine is gas and border security. Russia needs the money and backed Assad in Syria to block the southern gas line from Qatar from coming thru. The more old provinces Russia loses dominance over, the less resources they have for financial returns and global influence.


CanadaJohn said:
I think Crimea is gone and that's all Russia really wants, in my view. I read somewhere recently that the Russian people were angry with Stalin originally, and Brezhnev later, for ceding Crimea to the Ukraine. Putin is basically, in the Russian view, righting an historical wrong. In addition, I think Russia only wanted Crimea and for two reasons - the deep water harbour for the Russian Black Sea fleet and the underwater oil and natural gas deposits in the territorial waters off Crimea.

Once the Russian parliament adopts motions to accept Crimea's vote to join the Russian federation, I think their part in this uprising will be over. It will depend, however, on whether or not the Ukrainians let the Crimean decision, such as it is, stand or if they do something that expands the hostilities further and drags the west in.
Click to expand...


Russia definitely wants Crimea because of its peoples alliance and naval bases, but they didn't support Yakanovich just to annex Crimea. Currently, about two-thirds of Russia’s gas exports to Europe travel through Ukraine. Though, I think they could settle for Crimea and build alternative pipelines to the EU, gaining the offshore deposits.

The Ukrainians will definitely not want to loose that province, but I'm not sure Russia will allow much of a resistance. That's why the poll, and wondering how far will the West resist Putin's advances?
 
grip said:
This may all be true to some degree but the main reason they're struggling for control over the Ukraine is gas and border security. Russia needs the money and backed Assad in Syria to block the southern gas line from Qatar from coming thru. The more old provinces Russia loses dominance over, the less resources they have for financial returns and global influence.





Russia definitely wants Crimea because of its peoples alliance and naval bases, but they didn't support Yakanovich just to annex Crimea. Currently, about two-thirds of Russia’s gas exports to Europe travel through Ukraine. Though, I think they could settle for Crimea and build alternative pipelines to the EU, gaining the offshore deposits.

The Ukrainians will definitely not want to loose that province, but I'm not sure Russia will allow much of a resistance. That's why the poll, and wondering how far will the West resist Putin's advances?
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let russia have crimea. let ukraine have the rest.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
let russia have crimea. let ukraine have the rest.
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But will the Ukraine settle for that solution? Imagine a civil war, where Russia crushes the Ukrainian military and population?

Will the West sit back and avoid it?
 
grip said:
This may all be true to some degree but the main reason they're struggling for control over the Ukraine is gas and border security. Russia needs the money and backed Assad in Syria to block the southern gas line from Qatar from coming thru. The more old provinces Russia loses dominance over, the less resources they have for financial returns and global influence.





Russia definitely wants Crimea because of its peoples alliance and naval bases, but they didn't support Yakanovich just to annex Crimea. Currently, about two-thirds of Russia’s gas exports to Europe travel through Ukraine. Though, I think they could settle for Crimea and build alternative pipelines to the EU, gaining the offshore deposits.

The Ukrainians will definitely not want to loose that province, but I'm not sure Russia will allow much of a resistance. That's why the poll, and wondering how far will the West resist Putin's advances?
Click to expand...

Probably to the point of imposing sanctions and trying to make it as costly as possible for Russia to get what it wants, but not to the point of military intervention.
 
grip said:
But will the Ukraine settle for that solution? Imagine a civil war, where Russia crushes the Ukrainian military and population?

Will the West sit back and avoid it?
Click to expand...

russia will probably try to frame the situation in such a way that downplays its aggression and blames the ukrainians. that is what they did in georgia back in 2008, and it is likely they are doing the same thing here.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Probably to the point of imposing sanctions and trying to make it as costly as possible for Russia to get what it wants, but not to the point of military intervention.
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I'll agree that this is the most likely scenario. The problem with playing chicken with a substantial foe/nuclear power is not to slap them too hard.


Unitedwestand13 said:
russia will probably try to frame the situation in such a way that downplays its aggression and blames the ukrainians. that is what they did in georgia back in 2008, and it is likely they are doing the same thing here.
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They'll try and do this anyway, but it doesn't mean the Ukrainians will accept those terms.
 
I think you see the Ukraine minus the Crimea have no problems joining the EU and separating themselves from Russian influence. I think the Crimea was just problems in every way possible for the Ukraine.
 
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