View Poll Results: Will the Ukraine lead to further Regional Conflicts?

Voters
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  • Yes, Putin is determined to build an empire.

    20 39.22%
  • No, we'll crush them economically.

    2 3.92%
  • Our military really scares them.

    1 1.96%
  • Diplomacy will win the day.

    5 9.80%
  • This event will fade away in time.

    25 49.02%
  • Give them a basket of fish.

    8 15.69%
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Thread: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

  1. #81
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's where the US and the European Union need to draw the line.
    From the link:

    On the ground in Ukraine, such confusion reigns that the role of Spetsnaz is hard to confirm. But its involvement would come as no surprise.
    First, let's confirm. Let's not have another Gulf of Tonkin incident or go chasing WMD again in Iraq. Then, the question needs to be answered: Draw a line and do what?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    I suppose it could be argued that Ukraine had it coming for being so stupid as to just give up the third largest nuclear weapons arsenal of the world in exchange for promises from the United States.

    Iran isn't going to make the same mistake. Nor is any other country in the future.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    From the link:



    First, let's confirm. Let's not have another Gulf of Tonkin incident or go chasing WMD again in Iraq. Then, the question needs to be answered: Draw a line and do what?
    Dump weapons - particularly small anti-air and anti-vehicle missiles and sniper rifles - all over Eastern Europe and along Russia's SW and Southern border, plus form a NATO-like alliance with former Eastern block countries. Turn Putin's renew of the cold war into a deep freeze. A hyper-drive arms race. Put the Iron Curtain back up. We did well with it. Russia did not. We are over twice the size of Russia and with Eastern block alliances massively overwhelm Russia economically, population, and militarily.

    We have a non-nuclear weapons treaty to keep, Russia had agreed to it, and the whole world needs to see huge repercussions - not rewards - for breaking it.

  4. #84
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    From the link:



    First, let's confirm. Let's not have another Gulf of Tonkin incident or go chasing WMD again in Iraq. Then, the question needs to be answered: Draw a line and do what?
    I agree...there doesn't need to be a lurch toward intervention but it needs to be made clear that military intervention isn't off the table when it comes to the rest of Ukraine. Russia doesn't have a green light to create a new Russian empire.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I agree...there doesn't need to be a lurch toward intervention but it needs to be made clear that military intervention isn't off the table when it comes to the rest of Ukraine. Russia doesn't have a green light to create a new Russian empire.
    In my opinion, the issue in not about a green light, but the lack of what would be considered a viable red one.

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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    With Ukraine's agreement, we should put at least 10,000 troops in Ukraine. THAT is the red line, the same one we have for North Korea. Then make military/economic contracts with Eastern European countries that are probably none to comfortable now. Replace some of China's production of our products with Eastern European. We will pay for their products and raw materials in exchange for weapons and American money.

    The Ukraine is a massive natural resources region critical to Eastern European countries. This includes huge uranium deposits among others. Secure it. If Ukraine falls it will because we covertly agreed to give it to Russia. We already agreed to giving them the Crimean region of Ukraine.

    We better secure the countries on Russia's southern border who also agreed to disarmament in exchange for our assurance of protection. That also is a region of massive natural resources Russia will want.

  7. #87
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    In my opinion, the issue in not about a green light, but the lack of what would be considered a viable red one.
    Sure...after the West's involvement with Iraq and Afghanistan people are hesitant about going to wary with Russia over provinces filled with ethnic Russians. Putin has taken advantage of that. There's a point though where even overt aggressiveness overrides war fatigue.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  8. #88
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Dump weapons - particularly small anti-air and anti-vehicle missiles and sniper rifles - all over Eastern Europe and along Russia's SW and Southern border, plus form a NATO-like alliance with former Eastern block countries. Turn Putin's renew of the cold war into a deep freeze. A hyper-drive arms race. Put the Iron Curtain back up. We did well with it. Russia did not. We are over twice the size of Russia and with Eastern block alliances massively overwhelm Russia economically, population, and militarily.

    We have a non-nuclear weapons treaty to keep, Russia had agreed to it, and the whole world needs to see huge repercussions - not rewards - for breaking it.
    Interesting idea, putting the iron curtain back up. Originally, it was the Soviets who erected it, and the Soviets who took it down. The Russians might not do so well with one that is not of their making or under their control.

    Plus, this time Eastern Europe would be on the other side of the curtain.
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...after the West's involvement with Iraq and Afghanistan people are hesitant about going to wary with Russia over provinces filled with ethnic Russians. Putin has taken advantage of that. There's a point though where even overt aggressiveness overrides war fatigue.
    I suppose that is part of it, as well as what appears to be a lack of any viable foreign policy on the part of the Obama Administration

    Although I'm not a great fan of Peggy Noonan, I did think her Op-Ed on the Ukraine hit some important notes:

    Peggy Noonan: Warnings From the Ukraine Crisis - WSJ.com

    The most obvious Ukraine point has to do with American foreign policy in the sixth year of the Obama era.

    Not being George W. Bush is not a foreign policy. Not invading countries is not a foreign policy. Wishing to demonstrate your sophistication by announcing you are unencumbered by the false historical narratives of the past is not a foreign policy. Assuming the world will be nice if we're not militarist is not a foreign policy.

    What is our foreign policy? Disliking global warming?

  10. #90
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    Re: U.S. - Russia, who wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the way it looks now, let Crimea go under Russian influence, and the rest of Ukraine join the EU.
    How might Russia react to that, though, given the natural gas pipelines that were discussed earlier?

    Putin is not stupid. Surely, he has considered the possibility that his action in Crimea could have the result of a European Ukraine and loss of control of the pipelines.
    and most of the natural gas, water, and electricty that goes to the crimea is supplied by ukraine.
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